Comments on: City Council to vote on abortion restriction tonight http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/ Just another WordPress weblog Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:45:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Paul2 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4787 Paul2 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:04:39 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4787 (1) What if a woman attempts abortion herself (women have done so almost as far back as recorded history goes via herbs, etc. Answer: treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc.. (2) The only way to consider an abortionist a "killer" is to give the fetus the legal status of personhood. In that case, what about a mother who continues to smoke and/or drink during her pregnancy? If I go with your line of thought, it's clearly child abuse. How do we punish her or keep her from engaging in these types of behaviors? Answer treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc.. (3) Again, if a fetus is legally a person, what do we do with women in physically risks jobs or hobbies? Are there punishments if they don't take proper care of themselves. If so, by what standard and who sets it? Reasonable care and precaution should be taken to protect the baby in the womb just like we pass non-smoking laws to protect adults from second-hand smoke. (4) Finally, assuming legal personhood status for the fetus, what about women who refuse to take prenatal vitamins or women who want to give birth in non-traditional ways? If something goes wrong, are they then legally liable? If so, to what standard and who sets it? No need to micromanage the pregnancy. No harm intended no foul. 3)Reasonable precaution should be taken to care for the baby. A drunkenness episode would be counseled like a suicidal tendency (1) What if a woman attempts abortion herself (women have done so almost as far back as recorded history goes via herbs, etc.
Answer:
treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc..

(2) The only way to consider an abortionist a "killer" is to give the fetus the legal status of personhood. In that case, what about a mother who continues to smoke and/or drink during her pregnancy? If I go with your line of thought, it's clearly child abuse. How do we punish her or keep her from engaging in these types of behaviors?
Answer
treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc..

(3) Again, if a fetus is legally a person, what do we do with women in physically risks jobs or hobbies? Are there punishments if they don't take proper care of themselves. If so, by what standard and who sets it?

Reasonable care and precaution should be taken to protect the baby in the womb just like we pass non-smoking laws to protect adults from second-hand smoke.

(4) Finally, assuming legal personhood status for the fetus, what about women who refuse to take prenatal vitamins or women who want to give birth in non-traditional ways? If something goes wrong, are they then legally liable? If so, to what standard and who sets it?

No need to micromanage the pregnancy. No harm intended no foul.
3)Reasonable precaution should be taken to care for the baby. A drunkenness episode would be counseled like a suicidal tendency

]]> By: Student http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4784 Student Sun, 02 Mar 2008 02:18:47 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4784 Paul2, Thanks for your response but it only very partially answers the questions. (1) What if a woman attempts abortion herself (women have done so almost as far back as recorded history goes via herbs, etc. (2) The only way to consider an abortionist a "killer" is to give the fetus the legal status of personhood. In that case, what about a mother who continues to smoke and/or drink during her pregnancy? If I go with your line of thought, it's clearly child abuse. How do we punish her or keep her from engaging in these types of behaviors? (3) Again, if a fetus is legally a person, what do we do with women in physically risks jobs or hobbies? Are there punishments if they don't take proper care of themselves. If so, by what standard and who sets it? (4) Finally, assuming legal personhood status for the fetus, what about women who refuse to take prenatal vitamins or women who want to give birth in non-traditional ways? If something goes wrong, are they then legally liable? If so, to what standard and who sets it? Paul2,

Thanks for your response but it only very partially answers the questions.

(1) What if a woman attempts abortion herself (women have done so almost as far back as recorded history goes via herbs, etc.

(2) The only way to consider an abortionist a "killer" is to give the fetus the legal status of personhood. In that case, what about a mother who continues to smoke and/or drink during her pregnancy? If I go with your line of thought, it's clearly child abuse. How do we punish her or keep her from engaging in these types of behaviors?

(3) Again, if a fetus is legally a person, what do we do with women in physically risks jobs or hobbies? Are there punishments if they don't take proper care of themselves. If so, by what standard and who sets it?

(4) Finally, assuming legal personhood status for the fetus, what about women who refuse to take prenatal vitamins or women who want to give birth in non-traditional ways? If something goes wrong, are they then legally liable? If so, to what standard and who sets it?

]]> By: Paul2 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4782 Paul2 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:11:02 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4782 Student says: I would love to hear from you (or anyone else) as to my post 145. I'm assuming that since you'd like to get rid of Roe, you've thought through those answers. Student, 1) The law should treat the abortionist like a killer. 2) The law should treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc.. Student says:
I would love to hear from you (or anyone else) as to my post 145. I'm assuming that since you'd like to get rid of Roe, you've thought through those answers.

Student,
1) The law should treat the abortionist like a killer.
2) The law should treat the mother with counseling and support comparable to what is currently given to people with mental illnesses such as suicidal tendencies etc..

]]> By: Paul2 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4781 Paul2 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:04:47 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4781 Student, I read the article and it does make mention of some "secret Vatican decree" that was "supposed" to be enforced by Cardinal Ratzinger, but where is this secret decree? The BBC article talks about an investigation in Ireland that uncovered some supposed decree but where is the decree? You could save me the time and answer a couple questions for me since you already watched the documentary. 1) Does it say where we can find/read this secret decree that they read? 2) WHo from the Vatican "wrote" the decree? 3)What specific actions did Cardinal Ratzinger take as the "enforcer" of this decree? Student, I read the article and it does make mention of some "secret Vatican decree" that was "supposed" to be enforced by Cardinal Ratzinger, but where is this secret decree? The BBC article talks about an investigation in Ireland that uncovered some supposed decree but where is the decree? You could save me the time and answer a couple questions for me since you already watched the documentary.

1) Does it say where we can find/read this secret decree that they read?
2) WHo from the Vatican "wrote" the decree?
3)What specific actions did Cardinal Ratzinger take as the "enforcer" of this decree?

]]> By: Paul2 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4780 Paul2 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 23:44:56 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4780 Student says, As I think I've clarified for you before, I don't think anyone is "pro-abort," although I do realize it is a flash word to get a reaction. For you to equate someone who is prochoice with a child molester is ludicrous. It would be akin to my assuming you are a pedophile because you are catholic. Student, I was not at all equating pro-choice with pro-abort. I meant to say/use pro-abort, not pro choice. And I wish it were true that nobody is pro-abort but unfortunately many are. They look at abortion as nothing more than an economically cost-effective way to get rid of the baby before it becomes an even bigger burden to "their" space/world. That is the pro-abort mentatlity I am talking about. I get that attitude from people on other blogs. You'd be surprised the number of people who look at it that way. Anyway, my comparision between the pro-aborts and the child molesters is that both are motivated by self-serving interests and not the good of others. Student says,
As I think I've clarified for you before, I don't think anyone is "pro-abort," although I do realize it is a flash word to get a reaction. For you to equate someone who is prochoice with a child molester is ludicrous. It would be akin to my assuming you are a pedophile because you are catholic.
Student,
I was not at all equating pro-choice with pro-abort. I meant to say/use pro-abort, not pro choice. And I wish it were true that nobody is pro-abort but unfortunately many are. They look at abortion as nothing more than an economically cost-effective way to get rid of the baby before it becomes an even bigger burden to "their" space/world. That is the pro-abort mentatlity I am talking about. I get that attitude from people on other blogs. You'd be surprised the number of people who look at it that way. Anyway, my comparision between the pro-aborts and the child molesters is that both are motivated by self-serving interests and not the
good of others.

]]> By: Student http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4779 Student Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:50:43 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4779 Paul2, If you'd like to watch the actual BBC documentary (approx 45 min in length) you may do so here. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15190.htm Paul2,
If you'd like to watch the actual BBC documentary (approx 45 min in length) you may do so here.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15190.htm

]]> By: Student http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4778 Student Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:33:54 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4778 Sylvia says: "OK, one more time: Do your research. I don't have the time to keep refuting your attacks. Go to http://www.clinicquotes.com/former.htm . It contains quotes from former clinic workers" This is the FIRST time you've provided a source for your statement, however, I hardly consider this a valid source -- it's nothing more than a collection from a PL website. I don't suppose you'd have anything from a newspaper, peer-review journal or something a bit more reliable? If I sent you to NARAL to back up something I said would you find that acceptable evidence? I think not, nor would I blame you. ********** Sylvia: "This will be my last post to you for a while, at least until I see evidence that you really want to learn and have open minds to take in what is presented. Otherwise, this is a waste of my time and I have better things to do." Nobody is forcing you to respond. By the way, that open minds thing works both ways. Sylvia says: "OK, one more time: Do your research. I don't have the time to keep refuting your attacks. Go to http://www.clinicquotes.com/former.htm . It contains quotes from former clinic workers"

This is the FIRST time you've provided a source for your statement, however, I hardly consider this a valid source — it's nothing more than a collection from a PL website. I don't suppose you'd have anything from a newspaper, peer-review journal or something a bit more reliable? If I sent you to NARAL to back up something I said would you find that acceptable evidence? I think not, nor would I blame you.

**********

Sylvia: "This will be my last post to you for a while, at least until I see evidence that you really want to learn and have open minds to take in what is presented. Otherwise, this is a waste of my time and I have better things to do."

Nobody is forcing you to respond. By the way, that open minds thing works both ways.

]]> By: Student http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4777 Student Sat, 01 Mar 2008 22:27:51 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4777 Paul2 says: "I pulled up both those links and did a word search on Benedict and Ratzinger…. not one hit.. no mention of Pope Benedict or Karl Ratzinger at all…just admit it was an irrational outburst." Sorry.....not an irrational outburst at all. I did a bit of digging and came up with the actual transcript from the BBC documentary. You may find it at the following link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5402928.stm Paul2 says: "I pulled up both those links and did a word search on Benedict and Ratzinger…. not one hit.. no mention of Pope Benedict or Karl Ratzinger at all…just admit it was an irrational outburst."

Sorry…..not an irrational outburst at all. I did a bit of digging and came up with the actual transcript from the BBC documentary. You may find it at the following link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5402928.stm

]]> By: Paul2 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4776 Paul2 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:19:07 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4776 Student, No apology for the Pope? Student,
No apology for the Pope?

]]> By: Student http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4774 Student Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:09:12 +0000 http://familiesagainstplannedparenthood.org/blog/2008/0212/cityhall0212/#comment-4774 Paul2, As I think I've clarified for you before, I don't think anyone is "pro-abort," although I do realize it is a flash word to get a reaction. For you to equate someone who is prochoice with a child molester is ludicrous. It would be akin to my assuming you are a pedophile because you are catholic. My guess is that most people who are catholic are good people but, like ANY group, there are a few idiots (not my first word choice but am attempting to be polite) among them. My problem is that the heirarchy, when notified of the problem, attempted to cover it up. It would be similar to the principal of a school finding out the kindergarten teacher is molesting kids and simply switching that teacher to the school around the corner. I would love to hear from you (or anyone else) as to my post 145. I'm assuming that since you'd like to get rid of Roe, you've thought through those answers. Paul2,
As I think I've clarified for you before, I don't think anyone is "pro-abort," although I do realize it is a flash word to get a reaction. For you to equate someone who is prochoice with a child molester is ludicrous. It would be akin to my assuming you are a pedophile because you are catholic.

My guess is that most people who are catholic are good people but, like ANY group, there are a few idiots (not my first word choice but am attempting to be polite) among them. My problem is that the heirarchy, when notified of the problem, attempted to cover it up. It would be similar to the principal of a school finding out the kindergarten teacher is molesting kids and simply switching that teacher to the school around the corner.

I would love to hear from you (or anyone else) as to my post 145. I'm assuming that since you'd like to get rid of Roe, you've thought through those answers.

]]>