Eric and Joe bring "Ground Zero" to Denver
Posted by Jeff, December 1st, 2007
I'm here in Denver with the Scheidlers as they bring the "Aurora Method" of fighting Planned Parenthood to the Mile High City. Updates below:
9:45am MST: I want to provide a little background before blogging away on the Denver protest and rally. We arrived in Denver yesterday morning and immediately met up with local pro-life leaders who are fighting the Planned Parenthood abortion clinic under construction here. Joe and Eric were interviewed on Bob Enyart Live, a Christian radio program with a nation wide audience, and called on the community to support the protest.
We then spent the evening with Will Duffy and Keith Mason, the men who are organizing today’s events. Will was the first to call on contractors to stop building the new Planned Parenthood clinic once their deceptive practices were uncovered – the same practices PP used to sneak into Aurora. Keith moved to Colorado from Kansas to help with the pro-life movement here, especially with the fight against Planned Parenthood’s proposed Denver clinic. We ended the day with some strategic planning for the Saturday rally.
10:00 MST: The outdoor rally is about to begin. We just arrived after spending the morning at a local PP clinic which has been in operation for years. Joe and Eric met with the pro-lifers who faithfully protest that clinic on Vine Street every week. I was impressed to see so many people out at the clinic, praying and singing hymns in order to support life – I'm encouraged and motivated to see such a strong pro-life presence already active here in Denver!
10:10 MST: Eric has kicked off the rally with a short speech, and Joe will be taking the stage soon after. I’m going to do some video taping, and will be back blogging shortly…
10:20 MST: Eric gave his speech to explain the success we’ve had in Aurora, and to remind everyone of the high stakes in this battle. He showed a large picture of baby Malachi, a child murdered through abortion and frequently shown in pro-life literature. Eric reminded us that we need to see those images, and we need to remember that PP repeats the horrors endured by baby Malachi every day.
10:40 MST: Will and Keith just gave their speeches – great stuff to get the crowd pumped up! Will kicked of his speech by reminding us all that “life starts at fertilization and ends at Planned Parenthood!” Joe then started the crowd with a strong chant of “life yes, abortion no… Planned Parenthood is going to go!!!” I think we’re about to start the march around the clinic.
10:50 MST: Wow! I didn’t realize it at first, but we’ve got a fantastic turnout! Hundreds have braved the Colorado cold to protest Planned Parenthood today. The crowd is signing ‘Battle Hymn of the Republic’ and ‘Amazing Grace’ as they march around the block where the clinic is under construction. Now that they are spread out for the march, I can see just how many people are here – Eric is leading procession, and it’s so long that he’s half way around the block and many have not even started the march yet!
11:00 MST: The march around the clinic concluded a few minutes ago, and Tom Brejcha is addressing the crowd. Tom gave some background on his US Supreme Court victories while defending Joe Scheidler, and is now offering legal guidance to the local pro-lifers. I like how he reminded us that the law IS on our side. We do have a First Amendment right to be here and defend the unborn… and we should never fear exercising our Constitutional rights.
11:10 MST: The outdoor rally just concluded with a short prayer. We’re moving to the Radison hotel for an indoor rally in about an hour. I’ll resume blogging then, and will hopefully get some pictures up in the mean time!
12:30 MST: We’ve moved to the Radison hotel just down the block for an indoor rally. Keith, Will, Eric, Joe and Tom are scheduled to start speaking soon…
12:45 MST: Will is starting things off. He’s giving the history behind the Planned Parenthood clinic under construction in Denver. When Will first uncovered PP’s plans, he went to the contractors and immediately asked them to stop. The main contractor is the Weitz Company, and the local pro-life community is calling on the Weitz contractors and the subcontractors to quit.
12:55 MST: Will and others have staged a campaign of protesting the contractors, subcontractors, and the homes of those involved in clinic’s construction. So far the tactics have produced some great successes – two subcontractors have quit, one subcontractor refused to accept a contract from the Weitz company, and numerous individual workers have up and quit once they learned they were working on an abortion clinic. Will even received a phone call from a subcontractor that promised to never work on a Planned Parenthood clinic again.
1:00 MST: Keith just introduced Joe to give his speech…
1:10 MST: Joe told the crowd how much he loves Denver. He’s been here in the past, and even spent a night in jail here some years back. He told the story of that trip – how he was falsely jailed, how crowds gathered outside to demand his release, and how he was finally let free the next day. When he was in jail, he got one phone call to his wife Ann. When he asked her “honey, guess where I am”, she immediately responded with “let me guess… in jail.” I wonder how she knew. 
1:15 MST: Joe is telling stories of how so many pro-aborts have been converted by pro-life witness. These stories remind us that our cause is right, but we need to get the message out as much as possible to change hearts and minds. We need to remember that God is on our side, and we have great hope in our ultimate victory over the scourge of abortion. Joe knows a half-dozen former abortion doctors, and believes that pickets, persuasion, and prayer changed their views to pro-life. Now that they are on our side, they freely admit that the Truth does win out if we continue to persevere.
1:18 MST: Now Joe is focusing on the need to persevere. Henry Hyde, a good friend and ally of Joe, called on pro-lifers time and again to stay strong and persevere. We can find excuse after excuse to not attend pro-life events, but we are called to find the time and energy to contribute the best we can. He reminded the crowd that there is an amazing opportunity here in Denver since the clinic is still under construction. The clinic in Aurora was already built before we discovered it, and we still managed to shut it down for weeks – how much more is possible here in Denver since this clinic is not even built yet!
1:30 MST: Now tom Brejcha is addressing the crowd regarding our legal rights as pro-lifers in America.
1:40 MST:Tom recounted many of the First Amendment violations endured by pro-lifers in Illinois, and the victories we’ve had when standing up for our rights. Time and again, events have proven the pro-life movement to be the most peaceful in American history, yet many false accusations are thrown our way.
Even today, Planned Parenthood actually called the Radison hotel to warn them that “anti-choice terrorists” were coming to the hotel. Sadly, the hotel listened to these baseless accusations and forced the local organizers to hire four security guards during the talks. It doubled the cost of the event, and was an obvious ploy by PP to once again smear pro-lifers. And of course the security was unnecessary – both rallies have been completely peaceful, as is the norm with pro-life events.
Tom encouraged everyone to always follow police instructions, even when they are in the wrong, but to let pro-life leaders and pro-life lawyers know about the events. We’ve had success with educating the police and using lawsuits to defend our rights, so please report any violations you encounter.
1:50 MST: Now Eric is back on the stage. He’s speaking about the Parental Notification efforts we have in Aurora, and the great pro-life support demonstrated at City Council and Zoning Board meetings. Eric explained how exciting it is to see that enthusiasm spreading to Colorado and across the nation – a growing enthusiasm to get involved, take action, and stand up to Planned Parenthood.
2:00 MST: Eric is giving concrete examples of how we’ve fought Planned Parenthood in Aurora – the Jericho March, City Council Meetings, rallies, press conferences, and round-the-clock prayer vigils. It is amazing to see how God has worked through events and people in Aurora. Eric explains how so many regular people have gotten involved – Jane Fonner serving as a day captain and "water girl", Elizabeth and Roger Earl organizing the prayer vigils and the web site, Roberta Salagi serving as a prayer warrior, Mary Faye Vasen collecting clergy signatures, Andrea Heeg distributing yard signs throughout Aurora, Matt Yonke blogging on events, and many others. Regular citizens in Aurora have stepped out of their comfort zone and decided to help, and we need the same support here in Denver.
2:10 MST: Now Eric is closing his talk with three requests of those attending:
First request – pray every single day, especially for Will Duffy who is heading up the effort.
Second request – please contribute to the Denver effort. Financial support is needed to maintain and grow the efforts, and any donation will be greatly appreciated and put to great use.
Third request – get two of your friends involved. This is a wonderful opportunity to help, so there is no need to twist any arms. We can all get two new enthusiastic pro-lifers involved if we simply spread the word about how exciting and productive these efforts are.
2:15 MST: The meeting just closed with prayer. Overall the two rallies had fantastic support. Going into the trip I was hopeful that we’d see large crowds, and the Denver pro-lifers did not disappoint. There was a lot of energy at both the outdoor and indoor rallies, and the speakers today did a great job of inspiring the crowds. We had a number of standing ovations during the speeches, and many people are now hanging around to sign up for future activities. God willing, we’ll see even greater support and pro-life successes here in Denver!
Well we’re about to attend one last rally and then drive to the airport. There’s snow falling here, so please say a little prayer that our flights get us home safely tonight.
I’m signing off from Denver… see you all back home in Illinois soon!
Jeff, this is WONDERFUL you are live blogging. Excellent! I'll add this link to Fighting Irish Thomas. What a shot in the arm for the locals to have such wonderful pro-life guests as you, Eric and Joe. They must be pumped! My own child's life (I've named her Mary Elizabeth) was ended in Boulder in 1978 through abortion, so I'm behind you guys more than you could possibly know … (well, actually, you probably know quite well). God be with you!
December 1st, 2007 at 1:28 pm
God bless the brothers and sisters in Colorado as they continue the struggle against baby killing in their state. We are praying for you.
December 1st, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Joining you in prayers. You wonderful people are building the Kingdom of God right here on earth!
What better way to welcome the baby Jesus than make a place of killing a place of prayer and holiness.
Planned Parenthood's days are numbered. When the truth is finally told, so many people will be demanding the termination of this profitable predator.
God Bless You and WE LOVE YOU IN Rockland County, New York.
December 1st, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Through The Lord God Texas Is Behind is Praying for you all also as we hope and strive for The Lord's Will For His Glory worldwide in each Heart And Mind from The Sacred Heart of Jesus and The Immaculate Heart of Mother Mary!
In Christ Jesus through Mother Mary,
Ryan Avery
The Lord God Is With us And Loves us His Children!
December 1st, 2007 at 7:18 pm
One letter means a lot. At 1:15 p.m. God is not "out" side, He is on "our" side. Keep up the good work and be assured of our prayers for all of you. Cannot be there but God knows we wish we could. Prayer Warrior JDB from Michigan.
December 1st, 2007 at 7:40 pm
I was there, and figured the sound of typing behind me was live-blogging. Good stuff. I was worried when I left at 2:10 that I would miss important stuff. Good to know the meeting was wrapping up.
This was a good start in Denver. Hopefully we'll get more people involved from the challenge and information supplied at the rally. It was nice to have the Illinois group to stand in solidarity, give hope, and provide practical examples. I'm excited that so many people are recognizing God's hand in preparing the protesters. He's not only on our side in principle; we can see Him at work doing what only He could do!
Keep it up in Illinois. There's hope.
To God be all glory,
Lisa of Longbourn
December 1st, 2007 at 9:38 pm
[...] December 1, 2007 by lisaoflongbourn I went to the rally today. In the morning we were outside the projected facility, a really beat up building presently, surrounded by wire fences with barbed wire on top. The area is under development, so maybe when the fence was build there was a need to protect property. Anway, we marched, prayed, and protested. My experience marching was holding the hand of a little boy whose mother brought him and his two brothers. Before today I had never met them. The rally was an informative kick-off to future efforts. Speakers included Keith, Will, Eric Scheidler from Illinois, Joe Scheidler also from Illinois, and a… [...]
December 1st, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Wow! Denver has a fence too like Aurora!
PP is closing down, torn down, and the fence removed
not by might but by the Spirit!
December 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Eric,
I was reading the blog about your visit to Denver and how people there can help (with the Denver effort). One of the requests you made of the people attending the indoor rally was to contribute financially to the Denver effort. For those of us who are not in the Denver area (or the Aurora area) but would like to help: are you taking donations for the Denver effort as well?
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:49 am
I pray for all of you to lose this hatred. This is not the way of the Lord.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:06 am
There were a few flight delays due to the freezing rain in Chicago, but we arrived home safely late last night. I’m just now reading all the comments, and wanted to take a minute to reply:
Net - Glad you liked the report, and thanks for linking it to the Fighting Irish Thomas page. Yes, the people in Denver were really pumped up about the rallies and to see Eric and Joe… the standing ovations at the second rally were great to see. I’ll be sure to keep your child Mary Elizabeth in my prayers today at Mass.
JDBurich – Thanks for catching that typo. It definitely needed to be corrected, so I made the change.
Lisa of Longbourn – Nice article… thanks for passing it along.
Joe – The group in Denver, “Colorado Families Against Planned Parenthood”, has their own web site. Their main page is here: http://www.familiesagainstpp.com and there is a link on the page for donations.
Acadia – I didn’t see an ounce of hatred at any of the events. Instead, I saw hundreds of faith-filled, peaceful, law-abiding Christians who were praying and cheering in defense of life. I spoke with every one of the leaders there, and each was clearly driven by love – love for the unborn, love for mothers and fathers, and love of the Lord. Please keep our holy and very worthwhile cause in your prayers!
Everyone else – Thanks SO MUCH for the support and prayers! It was great to read the comments and get encouraging e-mails/calls while I was blogging!
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:51 am
Acadia,
I'm not sure who you mean is hateful? Are you referring to those of us who pray outside PP everyday, and the ones that are trying to close PP's abortion business.
The way of the Lord is not to murder the unborn, but to love, support, take care of and walk with those girls and women who find themselves in a difficult place. That is the way of the Lord. Jesus would not tell a girl/woman to kill the unborn child that He just created. We (Christains) have a directive from Jesus to care for those who are in trouble. We are called to love and protect the most vaulnerable in society.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:57 am
I'm reffering to the people blocking the entrances to Planned Parenthood, thus, making it difficult for people to receive medical assistance. Why do you hate these people you don't even know?
Jesus would not approve of your actions.
December 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 pm
No one has blocked any entrances, Acadia. It's a peaceful presence in an effort to prevent the death of the next generation. If you think that is hateful, I don't know what to tell ya other than that you're wrong.
December 2nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Hi to those in Denver. God Bless You. Keep up the good work!
Hello to Teri and Mark A.!
December 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Thank you, Joe Scheidler, your family and your friends, for making the effort to come to Colorado. You pulled so many people up out of their warm homes (where we would all rather have been yesterday morning I think) who had never, ever participated in a demonstration of any sort before. I personally know eleven people who were there because of you, who had never been near a Planned Barrenhood site before and now are committed to this cause heart and - more importantly - soul. God bless you all!
December 2nd, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Acadia, is it the way of the Lord to kill babies? I think not. Why maybe, do you hate pro-lifers? God loves all of us, including you and everyone else. I will be praying for you and all in the abortion business for a conversion of heart to the Truth which is Jesus, and He is the Way the TRUTH and the LIFE. JDB
December 2nd, 2007 at 4:07 pm
"No one has blocked any entrances, Acadia. It's a peaceful presence in an effort to prevent the death of the next generation. If you think that is hateful, I don't know what to tell ya other than that you're wrong."
I've been there, it's nothing more than strong-arm intimidation tactics. Reminds me of the Taliban.
December 2nd, 2007 at 10:23 pm
There has been no physical blocking of the entrance (your claim). You're just lying to say otherwise. The stongest tactic is to yell "please don't kill your baby."
If you think that's like the Taliban, you really are ignorant.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:02 pm
I've been to the Aurora PP and I have never seen anyone block the entrance to the facility. Evidently Acadia isn't referring to Aurora. Where do see this going on, Acadia and when? I'd like to be there and set anyone doing that straight, as I'm sure Eric and all the other pro-lifers on this site would.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Acadia…holding signs and praying is "strong arm intimidation tactics?" PLEASE! I've never seen anyone who is intimidated by us. Curious..maybe. I doubt those people who shout or throw things at us are intimidated by us. They may be intimidated by the TRUTH. That makes sense…the truth can be a scary thing. But once you accept it and acknowledge it, truth is really a great thing.
December 2nd, 2007 at 11:27 pm
Acadia,
It helps with communication if people ccan be honest to one another. Why were you there at PP? Have you ever had an abortion? Most people who support PP are only willing to speak in general terms about why they go there. I believe the reason they do not speak openly about it is because they know hat goes on in those places is evil. So how is it hateful to try and keep girls from entering into that House of Horrors?
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 am
Hi to you everybody from Calvary church. It was good to gather with you in prayer Saturday mornig.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:10 am
I was at both Planned Parenthood clinics in Denver - the one that is under construction and the one on Vine Street that has been open for years - and nobody attempted to block the entrances. The pro-lifers I saw there were either praying or holding protest signs, and were careful to follow the law.
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:09 am
It is hard to fight lies, so stay with the Truth and the vision of saving lives and souls. Acadia needs our prayers. Don't give all the attention to a lie. JDB
December 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 am
I believe in the freedom of speech as long as it is truthful. I am a Christian lady and I think it was wrong of this group to use the lie that Planned Parenthood forced them to increase costs by making them get security for the event at the hotel. THe group I feel used this as a tactic to get more money from the supporters. I personally know several people in the hotel industry and this is not true. It is common practice for hotels to have the right to protect their property, employees and guests from events that could possibly be controversial. The hotel used was told that this group was peaceful and did not believe in graphic pictures, yet they had them displayed all over at the outdoor rally. They also were not upfront with the hotel when they booked the event in regards to what the event was about. If they had been open and honest up front maybe they would have known they were required to have security earlier. Please understand that groups must take accountability and not blame others for their untruthfulness. This is how situations get out of context and cause issues. Keep supporting your beliefs as God is the final Judge for us all…
December 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Christian Girl,
Where in the article (or from an outside source?) did you gather that the hotel was told that no one at the rally believes in graphic signs? Besides, using graphic signs is in no way violent and, as the events themselves played out, this was a typical peaceful pro-life event. You'll be hard pressed to find a more peaceful gathering than most pro-life get togethers.
Additionally, where did you get the information that the pro-lifers didn't tell the hotel what the event would be about? Besides, why should they have to? Should pro-choice organizations have to go through extra steps to disclose their intentions to people they want to rent space from for an afternoon?
What is actually a blatant libelous falsehood is calling pro-lifers "anti-choice terrorists"! Show me one shred of evidence for calling these people those kind of misleading names. If you want to get on somebody for distorting the truth, get on Planned Parenthood.
Matt
December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Christian Girl,
> wrong of this group to use the lie that Planned
> Parenthood forced them to increase costs
I was involved with the event coordination, and Planned Parenthood absolutely DID cause the event costs to increase. Please do not accuse the pro-lifers of lying when that is not true.
> The hotel used was told that this group was peaceful
> and did not believe in graphic pictures, yet they
> had them displayed all over at the outdoor rally.
Our group WAS peaceful and there were NO graphic pictures at the hotel. I also know that we never said that we do “not believe in graphic pictures” (a hotel has no need to know what I believe). However, we did not bring any graphic pictures to the hotel. We did exactly what we told the hotel we would do.
> They also were not upfront with the hotel when they
> booked the event in regards to what the event was
> about.
Not true. Where did you supposedly learn this from? We were upfront, and we held a very successful, peaceful event. Again, we did exactly what we told the hotel we would do.
> Please understand that groups must take accountability
> and not blame others for their untruthfulness.
There was no untruthfulness on our part. Please do not make false accusations of pro-lifers.
The only deception that took place was when Planned Parenthood called the hotel warn of “Pro-Life Terrorists” and to get the hotel to require extra security. The only reason the hotel required extra security is because PP lied to the hotel – please do not blame pro-lifers for simply gathering to support our cause. We have a right to gather in hotels without intimidation just as much as other groups.
It is a sad situation when a pro-abortion group can call any hotel where pro-lifers are meeting and raise the costs of our event. If a chapter of the NAACP was meeting, would the hotel charge them more if the KKK called and made baseless accusations? I would be outraged if that happened… just like I am outraged that the hotel charged us more because of Planned Parenthood’s lies.
Peace,
Jeff
December 4th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Jeff and Matt-
Please understand that I do not want to get into a he said she said argument. I believe in everyone's right of freedome of speech. I know for a fact that there are false claims being made by this organization to stir up people even more than they already are about this topic. Just know that God does not like ugly and while Planned Parenthood has been deceptive on certain levels in regards to this building, this group is doing the same thing as well.
In response to the comment:
>>Additionally, where did you get the information that the pro-lifers didn't tell the hotel what the event would be about? Besides, why should they have to? Should pro-choice organizations have to go through extra steps to disclose their intentions to people they want to rent space from for an afternoon?
Do understand that business's have the right to know the nature of group that is renting space from them. To tell a business 1 and 1/2 weeks before the event what is actually going to happen is not being very honest.
As individuals it is okay to speak about one's own beliefs, but unless you were present at all the meetings between the hotel, police and everyone, you do not know all that was stated by those in your organization…..Sometime those within think they are doing things correctly but they bring more harm to a group because of their tactics……
May God have Mercy on all of his children …..
December 4th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
What is your problem, "Christian Girl"? Satan is very much alive and sometimes people really do believe their own lies. The devil is a liar. The Truth is from Jesus Christ, whom we get the name CHRISTIAN from, when we believe in Him. Anyone can use the name christian. (Here we go again…Stay focused on saving babies, right to lifers) and you said it christian girl,"not to get involved with he said, she said, arguments." JDB
December 4th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
"I know for a fact that there are false claims being made by this organization to stir up people even more than they already are about this topic"
——————————————-
1) What FALSE Claims are you referring to?
"unless you were present at all the meetings between the hotel, police and everyone, you do not know all that was stated by those in your organization"
2) Were you present in all these meetings? Could you enlighten us with what you know that we don't?
Pls stick to the facts…no "he said, she said"
December 4th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Pro-life efforts focus first and foremost on the sanctity of human life. Innocent blood is shed with each and every baby whose life is taken by an abortion. Our concern rests also with women who in the end are victims themselves and are often maimed by the abortion experience. If someone is sincere in desiring to dialog on this they should feel free to be be honest and forthright in stating their heartfelt feelings on the matter.
Trying to throw curves and false accusations into the mix only serves to reveal one's insincerity. We are used to tactics that try to distract and distort. We will continue to pray that the light of Christ illumine hearts and bring an end to the senseless killing of our children.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Christian Girl -
I'm baffled. I don't believe in he said she said either, but you won't give any details. These are BIG accusations that you are claiming, which BIG consequences.
If you have proof, please share bc none of us in the pro-life movement would tolerate this. We would want to talk to those who were responsible and find out what he/she/they were thinking. That being said:
I know Eric, Jeff and Matt personally and I have a hard time believing they would be party to something like that. They have worked non-stop to shut PP down, and unwavering in their support for the unborn. Do you know them? Are you from Aurora?
Again, if you have documentation to support your position and claims, then we all need to know. But if you don't or are not willing to share, then please don't make such accusations. It will only cause more harm then good.
God knows each person's heart, even though we don't. I don't know what your motivation is but He does. I certainly will bt praying for you.
December 4th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Eliazbeth,
Shouting at people and putting signs in their face IS intimidation. How would you feel if I did something similar in front of your church?
December 4th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Paul2,
Thank you for proving my point with your "House of Horrors?" comment. You show your hatred, not something Jesus would approve of.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
I guess all the cases of pro-lifers attacking doctors doesn't provide enought evidence of violent activities.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Acadia,
What's your idea of shouting and intimidation?
We talk to the girls and tell them we love them and their babies. We try to tell them that there are other options besides abortion and PP, bc PP doesn't tell the truth. I am there almost everyday and I haven't heard anyone say anything mean, nasty or anything else like that. Have you ever been out there? If not, most of the people there are praying.
So if praying, wanting to help, and say we love them is intimidating, so be it. These girls need to know that there are people who are ready to walk the raod with them.
As for the signs: Which signs are you talking about? If you are refering to the 1st trimester abortion, we have had people tell us those signs changed their minds. So do I feel uncomfortable when I see them? Yes, but the truth of abortion is very ugly. And it should make all of us uncomfortable.
December 4th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Acadia,
We would tell you that those who killed the abortionists are murderers. They are no different then the so called doctors that kill unborn children.
They are not pro-life. Vengence is not mine to take. It is the Lords's. And some day justice will prevail, and all those who were murdered by abortion will be vindicated. Those who have taken the unborn lives will be held accountable. And until that day, I and millions of others will continue to call abortion what it is murder, and will work to change the laws. Because as a Chirstian I am called to protect the unborn. Jesus would have me do no less. Afterall it was Him that said whatever you do to the least, you do to Me!!!
December 4th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
The only hatred here is for abortion itself. Not for any person. The act of abortion is an abomination. We pray for the health and salvation of all the people involved in this abomination. Maybe the strong words we use in describing the act of abortion is confusing you regarding what is and what is not hate.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
"And until that day, I and millions of others will continue to call abortion what it is murder, and will work to change the laws. Because as a Chirstian I am called to protect the unborn. "
Changing laws for one relegious ideology is what the Taliban and Iran have done. It's not something to be proud of.
What happens to these women who now decide to have the baby and give it up for adoption? Is that a good solution? There are many babies waiting to be adopted, how many have you adopted?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Tara,
"bc PP doesn't tell the truth." You're not exactly an unbiased source of information.
December 4th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Planned Parenthood = note the word "PLAN" in the name. It's to help people PLAN their life. You do realize they also provide birth control, so unwanted pregnancies don't happen. If you scare away a woman from getting birth control, and she doesn't want the child, didn't you just contribute to the problem?
December 4th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Have you adopted?? I am all for adoption, and if my husband and I decided to have any more children, we would adopt.
I just finished a fundraiser for a friend of mine and her husband to help with the cost of adopting their daughter home from China. I've helped start an adoption ministry in my church. I have many friends who have adopted. Have you done any of these things?
And as for my faith, as a Christian I am adopted in the God's family, through Christ Jesus. My faith teaches me that life is to be respected and protected from fertilization to natural death. And until 1973, that was how unborn children were viewed by the law. My life was protected, but my sister's wasn't. So there is nothing Talibanish about wanting to protect unborn children. Abortion is more like the Taliban. Abortion kills innocent human beings! So again your point?
As for PP - all one has to do is go to their website and those they support. I don't have to make anything up or be biased, it's all there. As I've posted before teenwire and positive.org are just two of the ridiculous websites they want my underage teens going to, and there are plenty more. PP is connected to groups that encourage girls to go over state lines to get abortions if they have a parental notification/consent law. That's real helpful!
PP IS ANTI-FAMILY. They double talk. They want the gov't to give them my tax dollars, but they want my rights as my minor daughter's parent taken away in the abortion decision making. WRONG!!!!
There are many Christians who think birth-control is fine. There are those who don't. But most Christians agree that sexual intimacy should be in the bounds of marraige. Why? Because God made it that way. Read Genesis: A man shall leave his mother and father and be united with his wife and the two shall become one. Jesus reiterates this in the New Testament. I didn't create it, God did. I don't have the right to change it. God is rather clear on sexual ethics!
Birth control isn't 100% effective. The only way to be 100% protected from STD's or pregnancy is not to engage in sexual behavior before marraige. That's it! But if PP were to promote that (they are staunchly against it), then they would be out of business. I'm there all the time. The majority of their business is abortions. There are cars that come from MI, IN, IA, WI. We've become the midwest abortion hub. There's something to be proud of.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Again, to Acadia, there are waiting lists to adopt children in this country. I doubt that you go to church, but if you do, you would see families with children from outside of the United States. You might wonder, "why do these people adopt from Guatamela or Africa or Poland?" Because American babies who might be adopted are killed.
Also: "Changing laws for one relegious ideology is what the Taliban and Iran have done. It's not something to be proud of."
A history lesson for you: abortion was illegal in this country in almost all circumstances until 1973. Was the law changed for secularism? Yes, when Justice Blackmun decided that there was a right to abortion in the constitution that hadn't been discovered for some 180+ years. We're just lookin' to go back to the status quo ante Roe.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Acadia,
May God bless you in search for the truth about abotion.
Calling that baby killing factory a House of Horrors is not hateful. It is a statement of fact. I don't think anybody, including the women who have abortions, who would say killing a baby is not dreadful.
December 5th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Acadia,
Please read the Holy Gospel. You blaspheme Jesus when you say he would condone abortion, a selfish act of murder. Jesus is Love. There is NO love in the act of abortion, it is an abomination.
December 5th, 2007 at 12:36 am
Acadia:
Re your 10:45 entry. Thanks for bringing out an important point about the "plan" part of Planned Parenthood.
You-Tube had the video posted of PP CEO Cecile Richards' speech on the opening of the Aurora facility. In it she said something to the effect that PP will do more to reduce abortions than will the protesters. Steve Trombley repeated the same thing to the media in his comments. Presumably what they mean is that by distributing contraceptives and condoms PP will reduce "unwanted" pregnacies and therefore the number of abortions.
Now here is an organization that is by far the largest abortion provider in America with some quarter of a million abortions committed each of the last several years. And yet to listen to their leadership they want people to believe that they save babies from abortion. Does that sound logical, or is it really just an attempt to twist and spin the facts to support their agenda?
See for yourself per the comments from Dr. Malcolm Potts, former "Medical Director" of the International PP Federation: "As people turn to contraception, there will be a rise, not a fall, in the abortion rate…No society has controlled its fertility…without recourse to a significant number of abortions. In fact, abortion is often the starting place in the control of fertility."
Clearly, the contraceptive/abortion link is a vicious cycle that increases abortions, and the PP leadership knows this.
Those who really believe that PP is in the business of saving babies from abortion or helping women and families should take a closer look at the facts. Acadia, if you read all of the posted materials that PP has on-line ( be sure to check out teenwire.com also) and if you seek out objective analysis and historical studies of PP you will see an organization that promotes practices and values that are very much against mainstream morals and beliefs. I hasten to add that most people would be shocked if they saw some of these materials. Once a person comes to see what PP's agenda really is then the "plan" aspect of their mission is revealed to be much more far reaching than most people realize.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:19 am
"if you seek out objective analysis and historical studies of PP you will see an organization that promotes practices and values that are very much against mainstream morals and beliefs"
No, they are against YOUR beliefs. Check out any statistics about s*x, the average age is 16. The abstinance program is not working. I'd rather have well informed 16 year olds, than 16 year old mothers.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
"Please read the Holy Gospel."
You mean the Koran, right? The United States does not have a national religion. No one religion is "correct". They each have their own belief systems. You are trying to make laws based on YOUR religion. That forces YOUR religion on everyone, even if it's in conflict with their beliefs. And yes, I have a problem with you forcing one religion on everyone.
December 7th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Acadia,
Twice you told me that Jesus would not approve of what I was saying. Then you ask me what Holy Gospel I was referring to? You had referenced Jesus Christ in each of your previous posts to me. Instead you just just like to make use of blasphemous/sarcastic assertions about wether or not Jesus would approve. Your primary purpose appears to be to strike out against the people who have faith in God.
The purpose of blogs is for "discussion". Can you drop the personal attacks long enough to enage in a civil discussion about why you think it is o.k. to kill children in the womb?
December 7th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Your religion is one that promotes hate.
How is their love in any of the actions done here.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Acadia,
Again, this country was NOT FOUNDED on the Qu'ran, Hinduism, Daoism, or any other religion. It was founded on CHRISTIANITY, whether you like it or not. Our Founding Fathers invoked God and Jesus's name all the time. They did not seperate God from gov't. They understood that it was God who gave us our country and government. I have previously posted that our current understanding of seperation of Church and State didn't happen until 1947 in a Supreme Court case. Have you not studied American History.
What was the number one reason that people made the journey in the 1400s on from Europe to the New World?
As for PP:
You obviously don't know about PP's history. It was started by a Nazi Eugenist, who believed that minorities were nothing more then garbage. I'm speaking of Margret Sanger. If you haven't read her letters, papers, publications, you might want to. She was a racist. She didn't care at all about women. She wanted to control certain populations, while encouraging "affluent", "educated", "white" people to reproduce. She was right when she said, if you get the churches to say that abortion and birth control is morally acceptable, then Blacks, Hispanics, Asian, and other undesirable ethnics can be controlled and kept to a minimum.
So PP's founding purpose was to get rid of anyone that wasn't worthy, and so it continues its mission. You don't find PP setting up shop in Wheaton, Naperville, Oak Brook, and Barrington. Why? Because they are very white affluent areas. They don't need population control. PP Aurora specifically said with the population explosion in that area they saw a need. The popluation they are referring to are African Americans and Hispanics.
They are also the nation's largest abortion provider. They do over 260,000 abortions a year. PP Aurora has stated they estimate doing 8000 a year. That is huge number of aobrtions. That's 8000 babies that are mutilated, and killed.
Their "sex-ed" as has been disgusted before is horrid. Their material is NOT age appropriate and they promote promiscuous behavioe.
So, I have done my homework on PP, and their agenda. And it's not about helping girls and women. They are all about population control by abortion.
Again, you do not back your statements up.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Chris,
It is hard to find love when discussion something as intrinsically eil as abortion. But love can be found where people are honestly sharing and seeking the truth through witness to each other's experiences.
Love is comforting one another, especially the most helpless.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Chris,
No Christian, I know would ever claim to be perfect or sinless. That is why we need Jesus Messiah, Savior, Emmanual (God with us), who was perfect and sinless. God, so loved the world, they he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus gave his very life to redeem all of creation. He loved you Christ that much.
He told us to love the least of this world, the poor, sick, widowed, orphaned, girls who find themselves pregnant. Whether one chooses to accept that gift is another matter. But Jesus is still Lord of Lords, King of Kings. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Jesus gave us two commandments:
Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. But the second is just as important, love thy neighbor as myself. If we obeyed these two all other commandments and laws would be fulfilled. These are the two hardest commands to follow, because it means that we have to admit and ask forgiveness (repent)from God when we sin, and to be selfless in our lives towards our neighbors.
Letting those girls know we love them and their unborn babies is not hateful. No one calls them names. We try to tell them we will help them, and that being pregnant is not the end of the world. You obviously have never been out there. Do you condone those who try to run us over with their cars? Who swear and spit at us? Do you see that as hateful? Please explain how Christianity is hateful? I think you have been given misinformation.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Chris says: Your religion is one that promotes hate
—————————————————
If it's hate for sin and all the evils of abortion…then you got that right….
December 9th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Acadia says: "And yes, I have a problem with you forcing one religion on everyone"
—————————————————
We're not forcing a religion on anybody…we're not forcing anybody to convert to our religion…
We're standing up for ours and we're giving a voice for the unborn.
And you don't have a problem with the killing of unborn babies?
December 9th, 2007 at 10:59 am
If you are not about hate, then why the bloody baby dolls in peoples front yards?
December 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Acadia (December 2nd, 2007 at 1:23 pm)says:
I'm reffering to the people blocking the entrances to Planned Parenthood, thus, making it difficult for people to receive medical assistance. Why do you hate these people you don't even know?
——————
Acadia ~ I'm not sure if you're speaking of the clinic in Denver or in Aurora. The entrance really can't be blocked in Aurora. The design was clearly well thought out in advance to avoid that kind of problem.
December 26th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Elizabeth (December 2nd, 2007 at 11:27 pm) says:
Acadia…holding signs and praying is "strong arm intimidation tactics?" PLEASE! I've never seen anyone who is intimidated by us. Curious..maybe. I doubt those people who shout or throw things at us are intimidated by us. They may be intimidated by the TRUTH. That makes sense…the truth can be a scary thing. But once you accept it and acknowledge it, truth is really a great thing.
————–
Sorry, I do think strong arm tactics are involved. I don't oppose it if you want to hold signs (in writing), however, your graphic signs are inappropriate around children. I'm very much against the amount of violence that kids are exposed to in movies and on television. But I would find it highly inappropriate to put violent images on signs and protest where those same signs would be in full view of children. It's not right!
December 26th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Paul2 (December 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 am) says:
Acadia,
It helps with communication if people ccan be honest to one another. Why were you there at PP? Have you ever had an abortion? Most people who support PP are only willing to speak in general terms about why they go there. I believe the reason they do not speak openly about it is because they know hat goes on in those places is evil. So how is it hateful to try and keep girls from entering into that House of Horrors?
———————-
Is it really any of your business WHY Acadia (or anyone else for that matter) goes to a Planned Parenthood. Does s/he then have the right to ask you why you visit your doctor and get a detailed report on each and every visit? Why people seek the medical care that they do is a private matter.
December 26th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
B says (December 4th, 2007 at 11:55 pm):
Again, to Acadia, there are waiting lists to adopt children in this country. I doubt that you go to church, but if you do, you would see families with children from outside of the United States. You might wonder, "why do these people adopt from Guatamela or Africa or Poland?" Because American babies who might be adopted are killed.
——————-
First of all, why the sarcastic "I doubt that you go to church" remark? Second, don't you realize just how many babies there are in this country waiting to be adopted? The problem is not that they aren't available. The problem lies in the fact that they aren't perfect, little, WHITE babies available for adoption. Why not adopt a child of mixed race? How about a child with physical or mental imperfections? There are LOTS of those children available. Nobody wants them.
December 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Renae (December 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm) says:
If you are not about hate, then why the bloody baby dolls in peoples front yards?
——————–
Is that in Denver or Aurora?
December 26th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I guess all I can say is that I didn't mean any sarcasm towards Acadia. He seemed in his posts to be agnostic/atheist. Second, I know for a fact that people are adopting racially mixed babies and that there is still a waiting list for American babies.
December 26th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Tara (December 8th, 2007 at 6:08 pm) says:
Letting those girls know we love them and their unborn babies is not hateful. No one calls them names. We try to tell them we will help them, and that being pregnant is not the end of the world. You obviously have never been out there. Do you condone those who try to run us over with their cars? Who swear and spit at us? Do you see that as hateful? Please explain how Christianity is hateful? I think you have been given misinformation.
——————
I've been there several times. While you may not have called people entering the clinic names, many have. No, I don't condone anyone trying to run you over with a car, nor do I condone spitting. However, I do understand why people may swear at you. I heard a woman entering the clinic with her daughter do so. While it may have been an inappropriate response, her anger at the protesters making a difficult situation even worse was understandable.
December 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Matt Yonke (December 3rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm) says:
What is actually a blatant libelous falsehood is calling pro-lifers "anti-choice terrorists"! Show me one shred of evidence for calling these people those kind of misleading names.
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Please see http://www.armyofgod.com
That should really be all the proof you need.
December 26th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Brian (December 26th, 2007 at 5:48 pm) says:
I guess all I can say is that I didn't mean any sarcasm towards Acadia. He seemed in his posts to be agnostic/atheist. Second, I know for a fact that people are adopting racially mixed babies and that there is still a waiting list for American babies.
—————
Illinois Department of Children and Family Services show that for the year 2007 there are still, 4232 children awaiting homes. Why are we doing outside adoptions when we have this many children in Illinois who have no family? Where are people wanting these children?
December 26th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Are our laws too strict? I know of many families looking to adopt. Are the lawyers too costly?
December 27th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Speaking as a soon-to-be lawyer, YES, they are way too costly. It's ridiculous the amount of money lawyers charge to do the smallest thing. Hopefully, some of us can make a difference in the future. Although most of the kids with DCFS looking for families do have problems and most families want "perfect" children. The costs to adopt a special needs child is minimal in comparison to other adoptions.
December 27th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Read (December 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pm),
I have to disagree with you. I am there almost everyday, and I have not heard anyone say mean things to any girls who go there. If they seem to be yelling, it is so that they can hear us. No one says anything nasty. What have you heard?
There were some in the summer, but they don't come anymore bc most of us made it clear that those kinds of actions were not right and unacceptable. There is never a reason to assault (verbally/physically), swear, or act hateful to anyone no matter what side of the issue one is on. By the way all the violence that has occured at PP Aurora have been perpetated by those who claim to be Pro-Choice.
I have had the honor to talking with girls and couples that have gone into PP and have had wonderful exchanges. Because of alot of misinformation and lies PP puts out about us, those who have talked with us are surprised at how respectful and gentle we are. When we talk and they see that we really care not just about their unborn babies but that we care about them as well, the anger and hostility subsides. We have had girls and couples change their mind because we offer an alternative.
PP thrives on protraying us as evil, vengeful and hateful people who only care about "blobs of tissue" and not about the girl. We are religious zealots who cannot think for ourselves and that PL women are oppressed. That is a total lie. Many of us are Christians and our faith teaches us to care and protect the most vulnerable like the unborn, disabled and elderly. But, there are many groups that are not religious that are Pro-Life as well; Feminists for Life and Athiests for Life, LeftOut, and many others.
Unfortuantely there are those who call themselves Pro-Life who are extreme, but there are those who call themselves Pro-Choice who really believe that unborn babies are "parasites, aliens, invaders, leeches, and should not be considered a human being until the umbilical cord is cut", and hence a woman should be able to "get rid of the pregnancy" at any time. As I have stated before those who kill abortionists or bomb clinics are not Pro-Life. They have committed a crime and need to be punished. But Abortionists kill innocent unborn children and they should be held accountable for their crimes as well. Just bc abortion is legal doesn't make it right. Slavery was legal, but it was wrong. It took hundreds of years to end it.
Abortion is no different. Some day there will be a generation that will rise up and see abortion for the evil it is, and abortion will be illegal, just like slavery. But until then, I and others will patiently and lovingly wait outside PP and try to give girls a better, healthier and life affirming alternative to abortion. And I do not believe that is hateful in any way.
December 27th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
"The problem lies in the fact that they aren't perfect, little, WHITE babies available for adoption. Why not adopt a child of mixed race? How about a child with physical or mental imperfections? There are LOTS of those children available. Nobody wants them."
As always, I have to jump in on an adoption discussion that veers in this direction. My daughter through adoption is A-A and I am white. There are so many reasons why a transracial adoption is not for everyone, and few of them involve racism in any way. I talk about adoption to strangers at least weekly, sometimes daily, because it is right out there in the open that my daughter and I don't "match." I'm great with that, but it would not be for everyone. People want to hear my story, they will even ask me about my experience with infertility. Sometimes A-A women give me unsolicited hair and skin care advice. All of this works for me, but it would be a horribly uncomfortable situation for someone more introverted.
Second, you have to think about the healthiest thing for you prospective child. Suppose that you are not racist, but your parents or other relatives are. You cannot responsibly bring a child into a situation where s/he will be deliberately made to feel inferior by those who should love him/her unconditionally. Suppose that you live in a very homogeneous community and that your schools or neighbors would not react kindly to a multi-racial family. Again, it would not be responsible to expose your child to that situation.
Choosing to make your family a trans-racial family, as I did, can be a wonderful thing for everyone, but it is a decision that you need to consider. It takes that little extra bit of effort to make sure that my daughter will be confident in her race and culture, and be confident to deal with the questions that are sure to come from her friends and classmates.
On the subject of waiting children in foster care, this again is a different kettle of fish than infant adoption. Birthparent involvement tends to be much more positive with infant adoption, the system can take years of uncertainty before a DCFS adoption is approved with stressful court case after court case, and children can be removed from their foster home even after living there for years. The situation is just far more complicated than you are making it out to be.
I would say pro-lifers are, like myself, big proponents of adoption and this is not an arena in which criticism is warranted.
December 27th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Erin ~ My comment re adoption was not meant to critize PLs (or anyone else for that matter). I was simply responding to B's comment (below):
B says (December 4th, 2007 at 11:55 pm):
Again, to Acadia, there are waiting lists to adopt children in this country. ….. You might wonder, "why do these people adopt from Guatamela or Africa or Poland?" Because American babies who might be adopted are killed.
I still believe that to be a falacious argument. It's not because babies aren't available….many infants and children are available. Most people just don't want to go through many of the things you mentioned in your post.
December 28th, 2007 at 8:29 am
Read,
Thanks for responding to this post after so much time. I was specifically asking for evidence that there was any reason to call these pro-lifers any such name as terrorist.
Obviously, we all know there have been such things as clinic bombings and people who glorify them. Is that any reason to call any pro-life group that might exist a terrorist organization?
Let's put the shoe on the other foot, there have been many terrorist Muslims, but we all know it would be bad form (and someone would get the pants sued off them) if a nice peaceful Muslim group was trying to take out hotel space for a meeting and they were charged more because some Muslims are terrorists.
I thought this was America. Let's give people a fair shake and not blame everyone for some whack job's mistake.
In Christ,
Matt
December 28th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Matt ~ I agree with you about labeling ALL PEOPLE by one name. But please note that I'm not the one who used the phrase "pro-life terrorists." I was simply responding to your post. My "guess" is that it was applied because Joe Scheidler is associated with that particular group. The passing of the FACE Act was a direct response to tactics used by him.
December 29th, 2007 at 11:54 am