Wednesday open thread: pro-life and politics
Posted by Eric Scheidler on Wednesday, November 7th, 2007
Pictured here are the memorial crosses sponsored by participants at the "We're Here for Life" Rally on Saturday, October 27—all piled up in my garage.
As Matt reported, they were found dug up and left in the parkway on Monday, October 29 and reinstalled that afternoon, then confiscated by police on Thursday, November 1 and recovered by pro-lifers the next day—fittingly on All Souls Day in the Roman Catholic Church. Our information is that the city legal department authorized the removal of the crosses.
The legal department answers to the mayor, which both illustrates the importance of even a mere mayoral election to the pro-life cause (not to mention the cause of freedom), and suggests a possible topic for this Wednesday's discussion thread: pro-life and politics.
There is a mistaken notion that the only office that really "matters" is the presidency, since the president appoints Supreme Court justices, and only they can overturn Roe v. Wade. I doubt many readers of this blog hold that view, but some conservative pundits certainly do.
But there are probably many here who would disagree with some of my views about voting pragmatically to advance the pro-life cause. Briefly, I do not believe that a vote is an endorsement of all a candidate's positions or values, but rather an exercise of power to advance ones own causes, which sometimes means trying to defend those causes by choosing the least harmful among viable candidates.
And I know that there are elected officials who read this blog and argue that because their constituents differ on the abortion issue, they must remain "neutral"—which in practice invariably means standing with the "pro-choice" side.
So there are many facets of the relationships between the pro-life mission and politics, and I offer here the opportunity to discuss them, or any other pro-life topic you choose.
It's an interesting topic on the day that Pat Robertson endorses Rudy. Although the pro-life movement needs to work on all levels of government, the Supreme Court has blocked nearly all substantive limits on abortion for nearly 35 years. With the Carhart v. Gonzales decision, we can see the light now, with 4 solid anti-Roe Justices (Scalia, Thomas, probably Roberts and Alito) and 1 waivering Roe supporter (Kennedy). Stevens is old, Ginsberg is sick, and Souter nearly resigned in 2001. 2008 can be the election that pushes Roe aside.
Remember, for all the consternation against Weisner, if Planned Parenthood or another abortion provider wants to come into Aurora, there is nothing the City government can do about it (assuming, of course, that they comply with zoning codes, etc.). Only after Roe is overturned can the situation be changed.
It's for this reason that I would be able to hold my nose and vote for Rudy. I like him for other reasons, but his pledge to nominate Scalias is sufficient for me.
On another note, I was running errands this afternoon and stopped in at the Dominicks next to PP. I saw about 5 or 6 people standing in front of the fence. I saw someone in a suit talking with them who then wandered off and got into a limo. As I watched from the parking lot I saw three or four cars pull in and several women (whether employees or patients, I don't know) entered the facility. The scene was quiet and peaceful, hiding what was going on in the building. A strange scene.
November 7th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
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November 7th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Brian
I was one of the people praying in front of the fence. The man in the suit who got into the limo had been praying out on the sidewalk for the previous hour. He drives that limo and had to go to work. I'm sure it did look strange, remembering how it looked the day of their "grand opeining" party with all the limos, etc.
Yes, there was quite a bit of traffic going in at that time - some workers, mostly clients. So sad.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
Pro-life and Politics: Volumes have been written about such, and it seems we never come away with a clear road map.
I agree that pragmatism has a role. One could argue that there is no perfect candidate and never will be. So in that sense every time we go to the polls to cast our ballots we are making a pragmatic decision.
The next question is how far down the "pragmatic" road does one go before getting lost? And are we at that point right now where we are being forced to make a really tough decision?
One more question has to do with the Democrats supposedly softening their opposition to pro-life candidates. We heard a lot about this during the last election, but there hasn't been a stampede to cultivate and elect pro-life Democrats. I think it is safe to say their party platform will not change.
So of the two major parties, only one will carry the pro-life plank in their platform. It is here where pro-lifers who vote in the Republican primaries are given the task of determining which Republican candidate supports most of our shared values, but with a special emphasis on life.
Electability plays a role as well, hence all the talk about pragmatism. But with several months to go before the Super Tuesday primary and months after that until the convention, it is probably too early to say that we must decide on our guy right now.
The really pragmatic thing to do right now is to sit tight and see how things develop. A lot can happen in a short time that could alter the political landscape.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:50 pm
I read the Catholic Answers booklet listing the 5 points to help decide on a pro-life politician to vote for. I am here to tell you that there is no one that meets the bill.
Abortion is listed as number one and it is here. But euthanasia is not something looming in the future. It is here—now. It is here in Aurora under many dubious disguises but the worst is under the umbrella called hospice. I, my parents, and mother-in-law all met with the euthanasia mentality and fought it fiercely. It is here.
You mention that the politicians read this blog. Well, I spoke to one of them, a pro-lifer, about my situation. He only sneered at me. Why Mr. So-n-so did you do that? I don’t lie. I don’t lie. I told you the truth. Anyone who knows my story knows it to be real and knows the pain. Why do you choose to believe the doctors and their administration instead of me? I lived it. You will never experience all I went through if you become ill. You will be coddled and treated like a VIP. Whereas I and my family will be labeled.
There is no one to vote for. There is no one to trust.
November 7th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
If any doctor, hospice, hospital, nursing home, nurse, ethicist, priest, chaplain tells you that "you don't feed a patient with cancer because that feeds the cancer" tell them that is wrong. Unless death is imminent, food and fluid are not extra-ordinary support. They are ordinary and essential for a any human being regardless of mental status or diagnsis or age.
If anyone puts you on morphine when you are terminally ill, request another medication that will not effect your mental status. My family had the most painful cancer that you can have and did well and stayed alert until the end with something different. Your last days of yours are more than precious and essential to prepare you in dying.
Also be aware that if an order is written to make you a DNR, you will recive less quality care. I have seen it countless times. Call lights will not be answered for hours, pain medication will be delayed, attitudes will ensue. You have a right to be a full code until the end.
If you have a living will, upodate it to reflect the specific that you require food and fluid to be administered in all cases even when terminal. Be aware that, even though you have the living will, if it is not in the doctors interest (note it is not your interest) they will make you a DNR without you even knowing. A family member almost bled to death this way–it was OK for the doctors becasue he alsohad a chronic mental condition.
Don't be duped by the religious convictions, credentials or affiliations staff, chaplains, doctors, nurses or organizations have. Catholic, or Chirstian, churchgoers mean nothing if they don't defend life with these ordinary means.
And imminent DOES NOT equal terminal. Someone could be terminal for months and months. They try to pull that one terminology that they are the same when they are not.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Since Sam Brownback dropped out of the race, we are backing Michael Huckabee for President of the United States. I urge you all to read about this fine pro-life candidate. We at Fighting Irish Thomas are behind him 100%.
November 8th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
When is the next mayoral election in Aurora?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:31 am
MG,
I concur totally with what you have said and experienced regarding end-of-life issues in our so-called "modern" health care systems today. I also have seen it in so-called Catholic nursing homes, even at the Little Sisters' of the Poor St. Joseph Home in Palatine, Illinois, where my elderly cousin, after suffering a major, debilitating stroke last year, was dehydrated to death at the request of his immediate family. I could do nothing. When I suggested to one of his sons that everyone deserves food and hydration, he responded that they spoke with the doctor and a priest AND even the retired, resident bishop, who is the chaplain of that home, and they all gave the family the "O-K", and remarked, "We don't want to prolong this."
They didn't want to prolong their father's life by feeding him? They got the "O-K" to dehydrate their very own father, in order to keep him from suffering???
I was horrified and sickened by what I saw, but not being an immediate family member, I did not feel I could say or do anything. This is happening all the time in hospitals, nursing homes and hospices. Let us be vigilant and educate ourselves about what the Church teaches about end-of-life issues, or regarding persons in the so-called "permanent vegetative state" (a terrible label to put on anyone).
November 9th, 2007 at 2:15 am
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
RESPONSES TO CERTAIN QUESTIONS
OF THE UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS
CONCERNING ARTIFICIAL NUTRITION AND HYDRATION
First question: Is the administration of food and water (whether by natural or artificial means) to a patient in a “vegetative state” morally obligatory except when they cannot be assimilated by the patient’s body or cannot be administered to the patient without causing significant physical discomfort?
Response: Yes. The administration of food and water even by artificial means is, in principle, an ordinary and proportionate means of preserving life. It is therefore obligatory to the extent to which, and for as long as, it is shown to accomplish its proper finality, which is the hydration and nourishment of the patient. In this way suffering and death by starvation and dehydration are prevented.
Second question: When nutrition and hydration are being supplied by artificial means to a patient in a “permanent vegetative state”, may they be discontinued when competent physicians judge with moral certainty that the patient will never recover consciousness?
Response: No. A patient in a “permanent vegetative state” is a person with fundamental human dignity and must, therefore, receive ordinary and proportionate care which includes, in principle, the administration of water and food even by artificial means.
The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved these Responses, adopted in the Ordinary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their publication.
Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, August 1, 2007.
William Cardinal Levada
Prefect
Angelo Amato, S.D.B.
Titular Archbishop of Sila
Secretary
November 9th, 2007 at 2:21 am
Another recent statement by the Holy See, in this case, the late Pope John Paul II, was made in a speech:
TO THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS
ON "LIFE-SUSTAINING TREATMENTS AND VEGETATIVE STATE:
SCIENTIFIC ADVANCES AND ETHICAL DILEMMAS"
Saturday, 20 March 2004
Here is a brief quotation from that address:
See the full document at:
http://tinyurl.com/5u35s
November 9th, 2007 at 2:40 am
Thank you, Paul.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:20 am
In case anyone's interested, relevant radio is giving away tickets for Bella at the Pickwick theater in Park Ridge. There's four showings each night for tonight, tomorrow, and sunday. All you have to do is go to relevantradio.com and fill out the registration form, then show up a few minutes early. This isn't a contest, you just sign up and get the tickets.
Just thought folks might like to know.
In Pax Christi,
Matt
November 9th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Matt,
As Eric's helper on the blog I thought I should direct this to you. My teenage son sees me blogging all the time and he asked me to ask you if you could start some type of blog for teenagers.
And thanks for the info on Bella tickets.
Paul2
November 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Paul,
That's excellent that your son is interested! We actually already have such a blog. Generations For Life is the youth outreach arm of the Pro-Life Action League and their blog is right here:
http://generationsforlife.org/
There's great information and lots of opportunities for teens to get involved in pro-life activities.
In Pax Christi,
Matt
November 12th, 2007 at 10:39 am
I read that the National Right to Life Committee is going to endorse Fred Thompson for President. What is interesting about this is that Thompson is against the Right to Life amendment to the Constitution. He believes that Roe should be overturned and the issue should be decided on a state by state basis (while opposing abortion personally). There are several candidates who have been consistently pro-life and favor the life amendment (Paul, McCain, Huckabee). This seems to be a pragmatic decision rather than purity.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
June 20, 2006 — “… to somehow believe that the taking of an innocent, unborn human life is about privacy and not about that unborn life is ludicrous … I'm not going to be reticent about supporting laws that would help us to preserve human life.” -Mike Huckabee
He never EVER waivers, he's 100% PRO-life. Please read about this man running for president of the United States. (And if you like what he has to say, consider donating to his campaign too.:))
November 12th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Wayside Ministries, Hessed house, The Joseph Corporation and the area churches with outreach programs are doing more damage to Aurora than PP could do in a lifetime. The above organizations are doing their best to make sure that Aurora retains the Ghetto of the Western burbs title.
Protest to shut down these organization and make a real difference.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Tom,
Hessed House and Wayside Mission provide places to live for those without food, a home, or hope. If you want to live in a community without the problems of homelessness, pack up and move to Naperville.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Be careful Tom, you may need one of the services of those you mentioned one of these days. Consider yourself blessed right now.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Tom–
Are you kidding? Those organizations seek to feed the hungry and shelter the homeless. Yes, sometimes homeless people seek out Aurora, but that is because they have no options in neighboring communities. They would freeze or starve. I for one welcome any organization that seeks only to help people attain their basic human needs.
Erin
November 12th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
At least Tom is being consistant. it's only logical that people who are ok with the destruction of unwanted babies would advocate ignoring the needs of the less fortunate because they are the unwanted of our larger community. The converse is also true, we who value life before birth need to not neglect life after birth and continue to support these vital services and ministries especially as the weather gets cold and the holidays approach.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:17 am
Maybe Tom would be happy if we turned those organizations into assisted suicide houses just like PP is assisting murder? Then we could stamp out the getto he speaks of. Then next we could start rounding up other less than perfect individuals like the elderly and handicapped. BTW, we will decide what a handicap is and that could be a very broad spectrum just like PP says that an unborn baby is not a person.
November 13th, 2007 at 8:29 am
I'd like to hear why Tom thinks those charities are doing "more damage to Aurora than PP could do in a lifetime"…and pls note PP KILLS 4,000+ babies a day (if I remember the stats right)…
C'mon Tom,it's an open forum/ blog…so much more open than the one at PP's blog.
November 13th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Ok, Everybody…
We moved downtown Aurora on the cities advertisement that there is a big revitalization underway. It’s been a year and we have a nice condo surrounded by trash, liquor bottles and drug paraphernalia that the lovely homeless discard on the sidewalks. Maybe you would be available to help us with our weekly trash sweeps, or send the homeless to your yard to urinate.
Oh, it’s interesting that you assume that I’m for pp.
These people destroy the community because a large portion use the outreach centers just to maintain, not improve. Litter with trash and glass liquor bottles. They are so brazen that they will do this right in front of you.
Oh, and then there is the drugged out prostitute we frequently see hanging around the bars that the homeless and losers frequent on Galena. We call her Trixi. So how about it? Do you want to invite Trixi and here friends over for dinner? They can be found at the various outreach centers. Bon appetit!
November 13th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
…I still don't see anything worse than PP killing babies…
Litter could be picked, drug addicts and prostitutes could be rehabilitated…BUT once you kill a baby, that's the end of it, no hope, no chance for healing or rehabilitation.
These people are still alive…with life comes hope. The babies that PP kills are not given that chance.
"Oh, it’s interesting that you assume that I’m for pp."
You're the one who compared this issue to PP.
November 13th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
The homeless, drug addicts and prostitutes have deep-seated problems that are difficult to address. The shelters and other groups are at least reaching out to them with basic needs. But they have much deeper needs.
The deepest need we all have is to know that we are loved. Most of us are selfish by nature, but what we need to do is to knock off our selfishness and reach out to others to try to make them feel they are loved. Everyone should do what they can to reach out to others in love. Pro-life work in all its facets is one very important work of mercy. Feeding the hungry is another. Sheltering the homeless, orphans, caring for widows in their distress. All of these are important ministries.
If there is a situation involving crime, this needs to be reported to the police.
But ultimately, all societal problems are human problems - spiritual problems. We are all born with the taint of original sin and thus we have a fallen nature. God's grace is available to all who ask, seek and knock. This is the Gospel of Christ.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Tom,
I assume you live in Riverside Plaza (how's the free Mercedes?). I can't say that I know what it's like living there. But what sketchy bars are there on Galena? The only sketchy bar in downtown Aurora that I'm aware of is the Web, on Downer.
Hessed House is down the road from you, but do you really think that there should be no help for the homeless? And read your post. You say that feeding and providing shelter for the poor does more damage than PP can do in a lifetime. I think it leaves in our mind that you are, at best, neutral towards PP.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, "Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me." Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?" And the King will answer them, "Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me." Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me." Then they also will answer, "Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?" Then he will answer them, "Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me." And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
From the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, chapter 25, verses 31 to 46, Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition.
November 13th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
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February 9th, 2008 at 1:20 am