Fox Valley Families Against Planned Parenthood

Mayor Ignores Citizens and Aldermen

Posted by Roger on Monday, October 1st, 2007

Mayor Tom Weisner had a press conference today at 3pm in which he told the press that the city would be issuing the occupancy permit sometime in the next 24 hours.

You would think the Mayor of the City of Aurora, Tom Weisner, would be a leader. But, it seems that he has his own plan in mind when it comes to Planned Parenthood. Maybe that's why he was sick and missed last week's City Council meeting where almost 200 people signed up to address the City Council. I mean, who want to listen to their constituents when your mind is already made up.

When I say, "made up", I don't think the Mayor would issue the occupancy permit if "criminal fraud" occurred. But when was it in all the hours of 3-minute speeches to the City Council that we specifically wanted this investigation to be limited to "criminal" fraud?

It seemed downright odd that the Kane County State's Attorney, Barsanti, was brought in. But I thought, so be it, they may have committed criminal fraud. Well, it looks like no one from Planned Parenthood will be going to jail for this one, so far.

You could see this coming, the Mayor's actions that is, when it was revealed that Barsanti was only looking for criminal fraud.

Our "beef" with the process that PP took was that they misrepresented themselves and lied to the City of Aurora and to its citizens. They lied to me and to you.

It should be someone well know that proving "criminally" takes much more evidence – beyond a reasonable doubt – than it takes to prove a "civil" case – by a preponderance of the evidence. So, maybe PP walked the letter of the law. (And I only say maybe here.) But that does not mean that they were honest or up-front. We all know that they were not. They said it themselves.

The Mayor needs to take a big step back. Step back and look at the citizens of Aurora, its government – the City Council, which includes the 12 Aldermen, and what is best for Aurora. The city does not need to allow just any business into Aurora. We do not want the business of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood is BAD for:

After today' press conference, to which the general public was excluded, I heard from one of the Aldermen that they, our elected officials, where NOT given the reports by the two attorneys nor Barsanti, until about 20 minutes before the 3:00pm press conference. Our Alderman were shut out. Why? Why did the city council not have an opportunity to discuss the issue and vote on it? Isn't that what was promised to the people of Aurora?

Well, the fight continues. F.V.F.A.P.P. will not lie down dead. We will continue to pray and to take action to root PP from our city. Ours is not only a cause grounded in our faiths, but in our moral conscience. Planned Parenthood is not open yet! Our fight continues! Be vigilant. Be strong!

This entry was posted on Monday, October 1st, 2007 at 5:27 pm and is filed under Community Impact, Legal and Political, News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

222 Responses to “Mayor Ignores Citizens and Aldermen”

  1. Jerry Nickels says:

    Now that the mayor got what he wanted–political cover–it is clear for all to see how the process was steered to this conclusion. The matter of civil fraud is what our concern was from the beginning. It is here where the citizens of Aurora were defrauded by Planned Parenthood's "obfuscation" (to use the word Judge Norgle used). It is interesting that a federal judge, 50 miles away from Aurora, can see evidence of civil fraud but our mayor is blind to it when it is right under his nose. The mayor must think we are really stupid.

    October 1st, 2007 at 6:02 pm
  2. Mike says:

    It is interesting that a federal judge, 50 miles away from Aurora, can see evidence of civil fraud but our mayor is blind to it when it is right under his nose.

    Whenever something looks fishy, look for the money trail and follow it.

    The Abortion Industry is a trillion dollar industry.

    Mike

    October 1st, 2007 at 7:32 pm
  3. Steven Trombley says:

    I invite all supporters and opponents to attend the press conference that will be held Tuesday October 2nd at 10 am at the Aurora health center. We will NOT rally in front of city hall.

    The Aurora police department has voiced concerns about signs on large poles or sticks and those may be confiscated. If opponents of the health center are found to be disruptive to patients arriving for services all persons will be asked to leave. Please obey this request if notified by Aurora police and remain off PPFA property as Aurora Police will be issuing trespass notices.

    October 1st, 2007 at 8:29 pm
  4. Mike says:

    Steven,

    All of us Pro-Lifers will be there and we are not leaving until the fortress comes down.

    Mike (Pro God's Choice, Pro Woman and Pro-Life)

    October 1st, 2007 at 8:45 pm
  5. Kirk says:

    Steve,
    Welcome to this site. It is interesting to see that you are posting here, but when I tried to post at your site I needed to get my message approved by the moderator (you?) and my message never did appear.

    October 1st, 2007 at 9:07 pm
  6. Brian says:

    Hey Steve,

    Thanks for the invite. I invite you to do the right thing and limit your clinic to serving life. Help poor woman receive health care, don't kill their children.

    October 1st, 2007 at 9:34 pm
  7. Dan says:

    I am speechless.
    I will fight on.
    I have to believe the Mayor will not seek reelection and will get well deserved support for a more ambitious position. He has to collect for selling out Aurora. I pray he has no daughters that would end the life of his grandchildren.
    Martin Luther King Jr. said, "A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true." By that measurement, Mr. Mayor you are on life support.

    Dan

    P.S. You can see MLK among other greats speak in a montage on youtube by searching for Freedom 101 on http://www.youtube.com
    These very words are what got me off my butt to stand up and be heard.

    October 1st, 2007 at 10:11 pm
  8. Charles says:

    Please note the footer on page 1 of the memo from Phillip A Luetkehans.

    “Given the expedited time frame within which a report was due because of federal court litigation, this report is a summary of our findings and research. We have not yet received all the information requested from City staff …. ”

    Now didn't the Mayor promise the public that this would not be rushed?

    Here is the video – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ7J_59XOpE

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 am
  9. Tiffany W says:

    Justice has been served and the clinic will open today. Whether you think it's right or wrong is irrelevant. The only reason I am posting here is because I received your card in the mail yesterday and I really don't appreciate this organization sending your propaganda to my home. You have no LEGAL ground to stand on and you all know it.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 6:55 am
  10. Ramir San Diego says:

    The Mayor's decision stinks to high heaven…what happened to listening to your contituents and representing the will of the people (of Aurora)??

    I guess money IS still the root of all evil….

    Your legal ground will crumble and give way to the truth…Slavery was legal in the 1800's, too!

    They won this round, but the war continues…

    October 2nd, 2007 at 7:29 am
  11. Net says:

    Tiffany,

    When you die (and we all do sooner or later) and are face to face with Jesus (do you even care if you're looking at Him and not Satan?), are you going to tell Him that it just didn't matter what was right or wrong on earth … because it was all irrelevant anyway? And how happy can He be to hear you say that "justice was served" in regard to Planned Parenthood's opening in Aurora? — a justice that, by the way, allows you to keep smashing His creations right up against the wall. Don't you think some day He just might decide to start purifying this earth in a more aggressive fashion? And do you think you are for some reason untouchable in this regard?

    Wake up, girl, and STOP KILLING BABIES or supporting those that do. He's a forgiving Christ, but those that murder little tiny creatures (or support others who do) have got to be on His "B–" team (and falling).

    P.S. "Don't like the stuff in your mailbox? — Don't have one."

    October 2nd, 2007 at 8:29 am
  12. Susan says:

    As a teenager, I used Planned Parenthood's services. If it hadn't been there to use, I would have been BETTER OFF today. It's far too easy to access, they don't question you or teach you the value of abstinence. When I received the mailing yesterday, I learned a lot about how deceiving Planned Parenthood really is! I checked out the teenwire.com website and was appalled of what is available to teens. They lie to teens. They give them no moral reason not to have sex, and make it seem like they are right to be having sex so young. Where is the education on the value of abstinence? Planned Parenthood is a bunch of immoral liars! We need to pray and pray and pray that this lying will STOP and this clinic will not be allowed to open its doors.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 9:03 am
  13. Dave says:

    mayorsoffice@aurora-il.org

    Mayor Weisner,
    I wanted to let you know that I'm deeply disappointed in your decision to allow Planned Parenthood to open. I don't know what happened behind the scenes to make this seem like a good decision, but I know that killing babies is not good for Aurora. It's terrible. You've allowed a company to come into our city to kill our babies for money – 2,400 a year at around $450 per baby (their projections). That's over a million dollars a year they'll make killing babies. You've sold our city to murderers.

    Dave Church
    Aurora, Il

    October 2nd, 2007 at 10:35 am
  14. Halo says:

    I'm so glad that our voices, women's voices, have been heard!! The right choice has been made here…to offer reproductive health services to everyone. To have a safe place set up for everyone to get affordable health care that otherwise they would've never had. This is a major step for women's rights!! Thank you EVERYONE who supported Planned Parenthood and who's voice helped to open this clinic!!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 11:32 am
  15. Drea says:

    I please kindly ask you not to mail your cards to my home anymore. While I agree with your right to freedom of speech and your right to believe in what you want, it is not acceptable to push your views on others – I see it enough when I have to drive to my mothers home and your signs posted everywhere, it still hasn't changed my stance nor anyone elses.

    Planned Parenthood is A LOT more than just abortions. I can understand if you want to close the abortion side of the clinic but denying the right for this clinic to open that would serve the families and their children in and around the city is a good thing, especially to those who cannot afford the high cost of health care. Shame on you who want to protect life but aren't willing a clinic, who is MORE than abortion clinic to open and take care of those families health needs to keep them alive and well.

    And to "susan" who wrote about "Planned Parenthood", do not expect an organization and/or business to tell you what to do in life! It is not their job to tell you not to have sex, they do not build your morals, your family and your friends help you build those morals.

    Kudos to you "BRIAN" for your logical thinking.

    And in response to the letter above, there are more than just the anti-abortion citizens living in and around Aurora therefore, he didn't ignore citizens.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 11:40 am
  16. Roger says:

    Well, I'm glad to see all the PP supporters reading our BLOGs. It's great to have you here. I hope that you will continue to read and become better informed by it.

    It looks like we'll need to post more information about PP and what it is really all about. They say only 10% of it's services is abortion. (Well, if only 10% of a cookie was "crap" (literally), would you still eat it.) But we'd have to assume that PP does not include non-surgical abortions in their estimate.

    And with 13 recovery rooms, and the only "service" they offer needing a recovery room being "abortion services", how does this add up? They have more recovery rooms than the local Mercy Hospital (correction) who does so much more.

    Drea, I'd have to agree with your statement "It is not their job to tell you not to have sex, they do not build your morals". But the problem is that they DO make it their job. They do degrade our morals. Check out the PP teen web site to verify this.

    And Drea, it's going to be difficult not to send stuff to your home without your address. Can you post this for us?

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
  17. Kenny G says:

    I encourage any of you who feel passionately pro-choice or pro-life to read Angela Franks' 2005 book, Margaret Sanger's Eugenic Legacy. It as a well documented recitation of Sanger's vision and strategy to prevent the birth of unhealthy children and any children to poor, ethnic or unhealthy parents and to limit births worldwide to two per female. She felt great affinity to those who wanted to use government to prevent births and control the masses (T Malthus, H Ellis, F Galton, A Hitler, KKK, et al) Birth control was one of her chosen means to eliminate births to 'unfit' mothers and to free women to explore sexuality. It is all right there, in her own words. She at least was truthful regarding her objectives and means. She accomplished much of what she set out to do. It has been estimated there are over 100 million fewer people alive today because of her success.
    As one observer, I suspect GOD/AA, as a not-for-profit, did need a special use permit, but that it is too late now to remedy this through Aurora government.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:09 pm
  18. Mike says:

    This was posted by Theresa on Jill Stanek's website…

    I have been following this story since it broke…not only from a pro-life standpoint, but also from a land development standpoint. My husband and I are both in the Land Surveying industry and our specialty is entitlements and zoning….I smelled a rat the moment the mayor "declared" PP broke no rules and could open today. If this was any other entity that had tried to pull this the city would have shut them down like a sledgehammer and probably ordered demo of the structure. Now, if the permit is allowed to stand after the filing of the appeal then the entire Planning Dept. should be sued ALONG with the "mayor" and each member of the city council….if I owned property within 250 feet of this facility I would have ALREADY filed suit. I understand how this process works and it is NOT ambigous…there is so much corruption here it makes me sick. The only reason this is unfolding like this is PP is greasing the wheels. There is NO OTHER WAY to get around zoning laws. I hope the mayor enjoys his bloodstained sports car/speed boat/Jamacain vacation/summer home that PP just bought him.

    …and didn't someone on this website say the Mayor is "Catholic"??

    What Parish does he belong to and who is the Pastor of the Parish?

    Mike

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:40 pm
  19. Tom says:

    Praising Planned Parenthood's opening, Halo says, "I'm so glad that our voices, women's voices, have been heard!!"

    One group of female voices who have NOT been heard are the millions of unborn baby girls who have been killed by abortion or who are in danger of being aborted.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:42 pm
  20. Ramir San Diego says:

    Have to agree with Roger's point on the 10% of PP's services is abortion, the rest is women's "healthcare" services.

    If I'm a family man who provides food, shelter, clothing, healthcare to my wife and 3 kids…BUT beat and abuse them only 10% of the time…does the 90% "healthcare" justify my 10% abusive action???

    It's already very tough raising kids morally in today's
    society….we don't need PP's help (if you can call it that) !

    On with the fight, Christian soldiers!! Hooyah!!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
  21. Renee says:

    There are quite a few women's voices that are not being heard, and that is from women like ME who disagree that encouraging women to be used as sexual objects is a good thing.

    The dignity and strength of women is undermined by using the gift of sex as recreation. Women suffer from this emotionally, spiritually, and are the ones to pay the largest price physically with STD's, infertility, increased risk of cancer and either unplanned pregnancy or abortion. This benefits men the most, by letting them continue to view women primarily as sexual objects, and then, should a child result, pressuring women to abort and save them from being real men.

    As I have been praying at the clinic these last 50 odd days, it has always been men screaming at me from their quickly passing cars to "keep it legal".

    Of course that is what men such as these would want, at a tremendous cost to the women they sleep with.

    Planned Parenthood simply facilitates recreational sex, then provides women with "protection" that regularly fails, then treats the failures. They make lots of dollars for this "service", at the expense of women and their wholeness.

    Planned Parenthood exploits women for money.

    Please, just do not include me in "women's voice have been heard" when lauding PP's entrance into my city. It makes me steaming mad.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 1:14 pm
  22. nemr says:

    Drea,

    If PP cares so much about providing the 90% of their services that don't involve killing someone, then why don't they voluntarily separate them? Offer abortion services one place and non-abortion services another place.

    Surely you can't logically expect those of us who believe abortion is murder to say that 90% health services (that are available elsewhere!) balances out 10% murder. That's ridiculous.

    Of course there are more than just pro-life citizens in Aurora, I assume…But if you notice, not too many of them were willing to stand up in front of the city council and defend Planned Parenthood's lying, or to even stay until the end of the meeting.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 pm
  23. Mike says:

    Would people here support buying the land next to Aurora PP and putting up a Adoption Agency and Crisis Pregnancy Center?

    Would you support time and money to the Adoption Agency and Crisis Pregnancy Center?

    Of course our biggest hurdle would probably getting through the permit process. Just kidding!

    Mike

    October 2nd, 2007 at 1:26 pm
  24. Erin says:

    Mr Trombley, Halo, and Others

    Welcome. I'm glad you are visiting our site, and I'm glad to have the chance to educate you. Please stop using the argument that PP is ok because they provided needed health care

    Quoted from the VNA's website, they "provide wellness and annual preventative services for men, women and children such as:

    • Immunizations
    • Health education
    • STD testing
    • Weight control
    • Men's wellness services, including
    prostate exams
    • Children's wellness services, including
    well-baby check-ups, immunizations,
    school physicals, sports physicals
    and lead screening
    • Women's wellness services, including
    breast exams, pap tests and
    colposcopies for women with
    abnormal pap findings, as well as
    mammograms

    Plus complete pregnancy care:

    • Pregnancy tests at no charge
    • Physicians for mothers (prenatal care
    and deliveries)
    • Physicians for babies
    • WIC Program services
    • Healthy Families American program"

    The only service PP brings is abortion. Defend that if you must (though I find it indefensible) but please stop relying on this tired and incorrect argument that Aurora needs womens health care. Do your homework.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 1:33 pm
  25. Eva says:

    No one finds the abortion decision or process an easy one. And from a moral standpoint, it is wrong to have such a procedure done. But the fact is that abortons will happen, Planned Parenthood or not, and it is therefore necessary to have such clinics available to the public.

    On a personal note, I am outraged that anyone, be it male or female feel that thay have the right to tell me, or inhibit me from doing what I want, or do not want to do with my own body. I logically understand the arguments og pro-lifer's, but if they feel that abortion is wrong, then they have the choice not to utilize these facilities. I however, am glad that the option is there.

    Several of the arguments in the above comments are contradictions. You complain of men yelling out of their cars to keep it legal, yet in the past weeks, there have been men lined up with signs and grotesque pictures protesting. Are pro life males acceptable, and pro choice men wrong? At the same time, you have been exploiting teens and children in your quest. On what level are they able to create an independant, objective opinion on the subject? And what alternatives do you and your organization provide had all these fetuses not been aborted? Who would supply them with healthcare? Who would put them through college? Who would support the parents? What about in the case of rape? (Talk about womens rights…)
    I have visited several adoption sites, and there are thousands of children up for adoption, and not enough loving and caring families out there for them. If adoption is in the childs best intrest, why not protest against the fact that gays are unable to adopt?
    You are entitled to your opinion, and I am mine. Just don't force feed yours down my throat everytime I drive home or pick up my mail: As one of the protestors signs read: "If it is okay to kill off unwanted children, why not kill off the unwanting mothers?" Disgusting.

    I applaud your efforts and determination, but PP has been allowed to open. Let them do their work.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:21 pm
  26. Mike says:

    Eva,

    You have so many questions, I can't briefly answer them all. Here's a book which would answer all your questions…

    Mike

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:39 pm
  27. John says:

    I commend the above blogger. A well written piece that very much points out all of the contradictions w/ the Pro-Life arguments.

    If anyone here chooses to be Pro-Life due to religious beliefs than chew on this for a minute…why not let God judge the individual. Please stop casting stones unless you yourself are sin free!

    If one believes that abortion is murder then that person does not need to partake in it. You will be in heaven and have nothing to fear.

    The Crusades ended a long time ago, unfotunately the mentality has not.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:42 pm
  28. MB says:

    "On a personal note, I am outraged that anyone, be it male or female feel that thay have the right to tell me, or inhibit me from doing what I want, or do not want to do with my own body."

    Ever heard the phrase "my rights end where yours begin"? Abortion infringes upon the unborn child's inalienable rights. An abortion is not the same as getting a wart removed, for example. We're talking about 2 bodies- a child is not an extension of a woman's body.

    "And what alternatives do you and your organization provide had all these fetuses not been aborted?"

    Adoption, perhaps? Just a thought…

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pm
  29. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Eva-

    As one of many families who have adopted (2 children) and are waiting to adopt again- may I just say that there aren't any babies in the Domestic Adoption Pool – no there are not……ask ANYONE who is or has been waiting to adopt. Planned Parenthood and other Abortion agencies kill them off faster than we can even begin to offer our hearts and homes!

    As for children conceived through rape-The circumstances of a preborn child's conception should not modify, let alone negate, his or her right to life. In other words, the preborn baby has a right to life regardless of the circumstances under which he or she was conceived.

    If we were to consider two infants, one conceived through marital intercourse, the other through forcible rape, would we say that one person was "more human" than the other?

    Two wrongs do not make a right. A second wrong makes a bad situation worse.

    Regardless of the father's identity, the woman is still the mother. The baby is still her child.

    And just for the record- Rape represents perhaps only 1 percent of all abortions. Yet we hear about them all the time.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pm
  30. Renee says:

    Eva,

    I was not complaining about the men yelling, just making an observation that is was only men yelling to keep it legal. That is self serving for them, not compassion for women. Men are the largest beneficiaries of abortion, as they can continue to use and discard women without any responsibility.

    There are oodles of services offered for women who choose not to abort, as I am certain you already know. (Check out the bottom of this very page for a toll free number. Just one example.)

    There is a huge desire for babies to adopt if you would just be honest.

    And this is the best,

    "And what alternatives do you and your organization provide had all these fetuses not been aborted? Who would supply them with healthcare?"

    If PP was really a "Comprehensive Health Care Center", this would be offered to women seeking help at PP, not just abortion.

    But despite PP's lack of true health care, there are options in our community for affordable health care here in Aurora already (VNA, Aunt Martha's and others).

    Please, these tired old arguments are just not going to fly here. We have been fighting thes injustices for way too long to be persuaded by your empty, false compassion.

    Bottom line, death is never a solution to social problems. I do not deny there are difficult questions to answer regarding abortion, but I do know death is not the answer.

    And you'll just have to get used to our praying and protesting, because we are not going away.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:45 pm
  31. Kathi says:

    Eva Eva Eva, I wish you could understand why murder is wrong. We don't beleve in killing because it's the easy way to get rid of a problem. Your body doesn't really belong to just you, it's on loan to you from God. Would it have been OK for your mother to have killed you? Of course not, there are many unwanted pregnanceys few unwanted babies. Many, many people want to adopt but can't. I'm sorry Planned Parenthood has placed their building near where you live so you have to see protest. Perhaps you should ask them to leave.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:47 pm
  32. John says:

    One more food for thought for everyone…

    Has anyone heard of the concept of overpopulation?

    If every child was born in this country that was concieved how much longer do you think our world resources would last?

    Just a thought.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
  33. MB says:

    "If anyone here chooses to be Pro-Life due to religious beliefs than chew on this for a minute…why not let God judge the individual. Please stop casting stones unless you yourself are sin free!"

    God also calls us to act with justice, and to stand up for what's right. We don't have to be "sin free" to know the difference between right and wrong.

    "If one believes that abortion is murder then that person does not need to partake in it. You will be in heaven and have nothing to fear."

    We have plenty to fear when we are complacent and blind ourselves to this slaughter of innocent life… may I quote the Confetior: 'I have sinned through my own fault,in my thoughts and in my words,
    in what I have done,and in what I have FAILED to do'

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pm
  34. Dorothy says:

    If just one woman had second thoughts about having an abortion due to the controversy surrounding the opening of the Aurora Planned Parenthood clinic, then the protests and prayer vigils were not in vain. A life saved at any other time is trumpeted as heroic, who wouldn’t save an infant in imminent danger? Yet we are to believe that a child in utero is unworthy of the same effort? If we give up this fight for the most innocent among us, who will society set upon next? The Alzheimer patient who has outlived his usefulness? Life is precious in all its forms and stages, I pray that women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy have the courage to choose life and be a hero to all of us. Many thanks to all who have stood up for Life. God Bless

    On a side note the clinic resides in Dupage county so why does Kane county states attorney have jurisdiction? I'm new to this fight….thanks

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:52 pm
  35. Renee says:

    John,

    Give it a break. Killing off people purposely is no answer to population problems, if they actually existed.

    Pay attention to the headlines, and you'll see that the only reason our population is increasing is from immigration. Our birth rate is dropping at a rate that will threaten your elder years.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm
  36. John says:

    "We have plenty to fear when we are complacent and blind ourselves to this slaughter of innocent life".

    But you are not being complacent…right? You are voicing your opinion on this forum…and I'm sure in your heart to God?

    So why do you feel the need to force others to have your beliefs when God already knows how you feel on the subject?

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
  37. MB says:

    "Has anyone heard of the concept of overpopulation?
    If every child was born in this country that was concieved how much longer do you think our world resources would last?"

    Then why don't we just kill off all the grannies and the disabled and the mentally ill, too? After all, they're just, "useless eaters", as the Nazis used to say…

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
  38. Mike says:

    Has anyone heard of the concept of overpopulation?

    Can The Entire World Population Fit Within The Boundries of Texas?

    LEGEND

    1 Acre = 43,560 Square Feet

    1 Square Mile = 640 Acres or 27,878,400 Square Feet (640 x 43,560)

    ——————–

    World Population = 6,276,000,000 people

    State of Texas = 268,601 Square Miles or 171,904,640 Acres (268,601 x 640) or 7,488,166,118,400 Square Feet (268,601 x 640 x 43,560)

    ———————-

    Average Size 2-Story Home with 3-4 Bedrooms = 1,500 to 2,400 Square Feet (Thus 750 – 1,200 Square Feet is Needed on the Ground Floor).

    This home would fit 5-6 people per house comfortably!

    Therefore 150-240 (750 to 1,200/ 5 people per household) Square Feet of Ground Space Per Person is needed to fit 5-6 people comfortably in a 2-story home in the state of Texas.

    ——————–

    State of Texas = 7,488,166,118,400 Square Feet/ 6,276,000,000 people in the world = 1,193 Square Feet Per Person is available for the entire world’s population to live in the state of Texas.

    As noted above only 150-240 Square Feet of Ground Space is needed per person to fit 5-6 people comfortably in a 2-story home in the state of Texas!!!

    ——————

    You can double check my math!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
  39. John says:

    I'm talking about world recources here…food, water, energy. Not a place to live.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:57 pm
  40. MB says:

    "So why do you feel the need to force others to have your beliefs when God already knows how you feel on the subject?"

    Why are you "forcing" me to have yours? We have to make a distinction between what is right and what is wrong- we must continually search for and promote the truth.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:57 pm
  41. John says:

    I am not forcing my opinion whatsoever. Simply having a converstion.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 2:59 pm
  42. John says:

    "We have to make a distinction between what is right and what is wrong- we must continually search for and promote the truth."

    I believe the only one who knows truth is God. No other human being has the right to judge another. What was right and what was wrong will be decided at the end.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:04 pm
  43. Mike says:

    John,

    20% of the people use 80% of the worlds resources. 80% of the people use 20% of the worlds resources. Do you think maybe 20% of the people can cut down a bit on the amount of resources they really need?

    One farmer can feed thousands of people. The difference between Pro-Aborts and Pro-Lifers is Pro-Lifers know "people" have the ability to be productive and therefore are America's greatest resource!

    Mike

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
  44. John says:

    Mike,

    I'm all about it…unfortunately I don't believe that's happening anytime soon w/ our capatalistic society and all.

    I'll tell you what, the minute you change our whole world social and economic structure…you can count me in.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:09 pm
  45. Renee says:

    John,

    Don't discount human ingenuity. Food production has gone way up due to increased knowledge. Energy options being researched to replace oil are in the works, and medical care is advancing tremendously. All this is from humans making great strides. I am certain that if these children were born, some of them would greatly contribute to our knowledge base in making this planet sustain the increased population.

    The value of a human life isn't just in what it can offer society, however. Human life is intrinsically valuable because it is eternal.

    I really think it is shameful for our generation to eliminate a third of the next generation just so we don't have to worry about our resources. That won't look too great when history examines our culture, I am afraid.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:10 pm
  46. Greg Guest says:

    I'm disappointed in the decision of the mayor to let PP open. God will prevail. I'm also disappointed that this blog has become a place of argument, debate and almost baseless rhetoric. I once felt safe and secure to know that some people out there agreed with me. I read many blogs and go point-counterpoint with choicers each day. I come here to feel alittle better. There are plenty of places on the internet to debate and evangelize. Many better than this. But there are few places where we can at least not be badgered by the opposition. If we can't filter out the opposition this blog loses its relevance…at least to me. If we need to evangelize or demonstrate our commitment to life, they can monitor without response. Everyone needs a safe haven. This was once one for the Families Against Planned Parenthood.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:14 pm
  47. Roger says:

    Greg,

    The PP blog will not allow open debate. They are afraid!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:16 pm
  48. Mary says:

    Roger,
    What do you call the above comments BUT open debate???
    They are not afraid of anything even offending us which they can do so openly on this forum.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:23 pm
  49. Eva says:

    I evidently sparked some reaction I see… I am glad to see the responses.

    First of all, I have no problem with the clinic being where it is. I just have a problem with some of your scare-tacticts. I will not ask for the clinic to leave, nor will I ask you. Nor do I have a problem with the protestors – once again, you are entitled to your opinions. But I am mine as well, and I do not appreciate my choices be condemed due to subjective religious beliefs. Man is selfish, and henceforth religion is interpretive. How I view my choices and how you view yours are two differtent things. And I assume that many of the responses I have received are from Catholics, because none of you have attacked the question of gays being allowed to adopt…?
    One of the many beauties of freedom of speech.

    Secondly, if you are arguing womens rights, then there are several factors that should be included, and to lenghty to be included in this forum. In short, womens rights are all-encompassing. One can not select elements that suit oneself to argue. Simone De Beauvoir (one of the great feminists of the 20th century) argued that womens rights, amongst other things, should include everything, both positives and negatives, and one of her strongest statements is that a woman is in control of her own body and self. Wouldn't it then be a step back in feminist argument, to return to a "clothes hanger" method of abortion? (hate that expression by the way)

    Thirdly, where is the responsibility of women? Women are too equally responsible for their pregnancy as men are. I am by no means arguing that there are not males that flee from their responsibilities, however women do have the power to say no. And although PP does provide abortions, they also provide proactive solutions to women in order for them to take care of themselves, their bodies and futures.

    Amd to the comment about rape – are you then ultimately saying that it is okay then to abort 24 children a year due to rape, because it was an unjust action towards that certain female…? Isn't that a double-standard?

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
  50. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    It's NEVER okay to abort period……..

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:49 pm
  51. Renee says:

    " In short, womens rights are all-encompassing. One can not select elements that suit oneself to argue. Simone De Beauvoir (one of the great feminists of the 20th century) argued that womens rights, amongst other things, should include everything, both positives and negatives, and one of her strongest statements is that a woman is in control of her own body and self."

    Am I, then, to assume S.d B. would be in favor of no legal restrictions on any woman's behaviour? She may prostitute herself, molest children, murder, steal and use drugs. It seems to me th at society has placed lots of restrictions on people's use of their own bodies.

    My point being, especially in PP's case where they actively target young girls, with little life experience to make sound choices, sometimes societal limits of behaviour are for the good of the whole, other times for the good of the individual.

    Engaging in recreational sexual activity leads to an objectification of women, a lack of respect for women, and even if they don't mind being objectified and used, the price they pay is a heavy one.

    I object to the degrading of woman promoted as a good thing. I object to exploiting women and girls at their most vulnerable times (sexual intimacy and early pregnancy) for profit and gain.

    I object to PP's casual dismissal of parental involvement in teens decision making, especially when speaking of the above vulnerable times in a yound girl's life.

    I object to PP motives in disguising abortions as comprehensive health.

    I object to the false compassion PP has for women. We have real health care here already. We don't need the exploitation of women and girls in our community.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:52 pm
  52. MB says:

    "I believe the only one who knows truth is God. No other human being has the right to judge another. What was right and what was wrong will be decided at the end."

    So everything that was revealed to us by God in the Bible is a pack of lies?? Christ explictly said "you shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free".
    What you are promoting is moral relativism, plain and simple.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 3:56 pm
  53. Erin says:

    The fight for women's rights was long and long-coming. I wrote my Master's Thesis on the fight of women to get the vote in 1920, and it was a remarkable struggle against great prejudice. Women needed rights that we now take for granted: voting, holding public office, freedom from sexual harassment, freedom to pursue any job, freedom from physical abuse, freedom to choose a marriage partner, freedom to be judged on her merits as a human being. "Rights" do not include freedom to destroy another human life because it is inconvenient to you. They do not include freedom from pregnancy risk if you choose to be sexually active. By hiding behind women's rights, you insult the women who worked tirelessly for simply the right to be full citizens.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 4:37 pm
  54. Anonymous says:

    Looks like our fine town DOES NOT listen to the rantings of your fanatic cult. Planned Parenthood stopped more unwanted pregnancies (thus more abortions) than you've done in your entire lives.

    * Poster name changed by moderator. Factitious names are not allow and subject to deletion.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
  55. Renee says:

    Spoken like the true father of lies.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
  56. Mike says:

    Anonymous user said:

    SATAN WINS!

    Satan may win many battles but will never win The War!

    The War has already been determined when Christ died for our sins on the cross. It's now just a matter of which road you want to choose — the road against Christ or the road for Christ.

    With Christ dying on the cross the war has already been determined and Christ has won!

    See the last picture on the Sorrowful Mysteries…

    http://www.catholic-kids.com/picturemysteries.html

    Mike

    October 2nd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
  57. Sally Forth says:

    Mayor Weisner,
    Thank you for your efforts regarding the Planned Parenthood clinic. Last week you were a hero to the Pro-Life action group, this week somehow they say you betrayed them. You did what you could as mayor, I thank you.

    Too bad some people are ungrateful for your efforts.

    Sally

    October 2nd, 2007 at 6:14 pm
  58. Renee says:

    Sally,

    I am fairly certain the good Mayor won't see your message. Try this address:

    MayorsOffice@aurora-il.org

    It's sweet of you to be so concerned for the mayor.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 6:17 pm
  59. Patty Pro-Choice says:

    Hey! I just received your postcard, and was so disgusted by your tactics that I went to the Planned Parenthood website and made a donation!

    Thank you!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pm
  60. Renee says:

    When coming out of the darkness, the light can be blinding, which may be perceived as disgust. May your eyes adjust.

    blessings!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
  61. annie says:

    Because human life is sacred from conception until natural death, abortion is evil.

    (So is preemptive war and capital punishment in most cases, but I digress).

    But preventing conception does not kill, and is not evil (as a matter of fact, I'd say it's a positive step in avoiding unwanted pregnancies and overpopulation). Giving exams and psychological counseling is not evil. And I will not be a hypocrite and say that "Planned Parenthood is Bad" when I, as a newly-married college student, received excellent care at a reasonable price at the only facility available to me at the time, a Planned Parenthood clinic. It's abortion I oppose, not the rest of PP's services!

    Why can't we ask Planned Parenthood to provide only non-abortion-related services at this clinic? Being willing to dialogue and negotiate would show a lot of good will on both sides, and would be really appreciated by folks like me who live in the neighborhood.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 8:07 pm
  62. Erin says:

    I would be in favor of that, but they wouldn't do it. Without their "but we do good stuff too" argument, they'd never be able to open an abortion clinic.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 9:10 pm
  63. Maria says:

    May God have mercy on the souls of those who say they are "pro-choice" and support or work in this "facility."

    October 2nd, 2007 at 9:30 pm
  64. Jennifer Watson says:

    It is unfortunate that Planned Parenthood has lied to our community that its services are needed. DuPage County already provides all the services Planned Parenthood does, except "abortion". Yes, DuPage County even offers "emergency contraception." I just learned that today, and I am unhappy that my tax dollars are being use for emergency contraception which is abortion in my book.

    I like the idea of opening a crisis pregnancy center next to the Planned Parenthood. I think it would be showing the no hummanity, no-life, no-say crowd that we do act with our pocket books and truly care about our community. It would also offer the women who go to Planned Parenthood for an abortion one last option of hope to consider, one more time to chose life.

    Although I am pro-life, I do agree that the pictures are really rather disturbing. I can't stand to look at the signs when I drive by. I think those signs turn off more people than they convince to stop, and other pictures would be more effective.

    I also do not understand by contraceptives, those that are non-abortive, are at issue in the abortion debates I have read and heard? I support contraceptives provided they are non-abortive. I also support sexual education (contraception, reproductive health, and the responsibilities of raising a baby) provided that abstinence is taught as the only 100% effective method.

    Also, I am glad that this site allows both sides to post. I tried to post at Planned Parenthood and they refused my post. It made me incredibly mad, and now I want to be heard even more!

    October 2nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
  65. Roger says:

    Mary said:

    "What do you call the above comments BUT open debate???
    They are not afraid of anything even offending us which they can do so openly on this forum."

    My point here is that PP does not open their blog to non-PP supporters because PP appears to be afraid of our comments. And they have reason to fear. Truth is contagious! People who truly seek the truth will find it.

    We, here at FVFAPP.org do not need to fear their criticism or their gloating. They had a small win in the opening of the PP facility, but that is not the end. We are still here and we will still work to defend life and the rights of all unborn children. And for the dignity of all men and women.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 9:40 pm
  66. Dan says:

    Great Discussion!!
    Eva seems to be craving attention, which is probably what leads to this issue we face.
    Eva, I do NOT believe that being Gay is instinctive, I believe it is a choice.
    I do not want innocent children to be taught how to be Gay, because it is a choice.
    The rest of you have stated your cases as you see them.
    Who among the Pro-Abortion crowd celebrates Abortion???
    Patty Pro-Abortion, I am sorry, but Eva is clearly beating you in responses. Until you find some work at the clinic you should do better at egging us on.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
  67. Tiffany W says:

    Annie asked this question: Why can't we ask Planned Parenthood to provide only non-abortion-related services at this clinic?

    Because you don't get to dictate to businesses what services they offer. Nor do you get to tell people what services they can take advantage of. You don't get to tell me that since you think it's immoral that I shouldn't do it. It's my body and my choice. A few people with signs of disfigured fetuses will not stop a woman who has made the difficult choice to have an abortion.

    One key issue that anti-choice people seem to ignore is that abortion is legal in this country. If you believe abortion is wrong, don't get one. The debate as to whether it's murder or not gets nowhere. No one will change their minds. If you want to change things, start with the legislature and try to change the law. It's unlikely you will win, but you can see your protests, propaganda and rhetoric are not changing anything.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 10:09 pm
  68. HR says:

    John says: "I believe the only one who knows truth is God. No other human being has the right to judge another. What was right and what was wrong will be decided at the end."

    Hi John, I agree we are not to judge one another. I agree God is the author of truth. I will never judge someone's salvation; If someone tells me they are a Christian, I will believe them. I have to, for it is not my job to weed God's garden. However, I also believe we have been given discernment which we must use.

    My wife's vocation dictates she be a "mandatory reporter". This means if she suspects a child is being abused, she has a legal obligation to report it. In the 10 years I've known her, she has reported at least one individual.

    This summer, right here in Aurora, a middle aged African American was riding his bicycle down our street. A gang of five white punks came into the street, surrounding him. As he tried to leave, one kid took a swing at his head. (Thankfully, he was so drunk, he didn't connect.) I called the police.

    Are my wife and I in violation of the scriptures for judging our neighbors? I don't think so. We saw injustices and did what we could. That's what we all need to do.

    Did my wife try to force her morals on that angry parent? Sure she did! Did I force my belief system on that gang of thugs. I sure did! I did so for I want to do what I can to change injustice whenever I see it.

    Injustice is also making the life of every unborn hinge in the whim of every mother's choice.

    -NP

    October 2nd, 2007 at 10:45 pm
  69. Charles says:

    Eva – Just a couple of things you touched on which I believe is relevant to this discussion. I cannot simply sit by when people make comments regarding free speech and freedom from government intrusion on their bodies. To this extent, I offer this –

    First, the government can inhibit what you can do – even free speech; as you cannot yell “FIRE” in a crowded theater.

    Second, the government can dictate what you cannot do with your body; as you cannot legally shot heroin into your veins.

    October 2nd, 2007 at 11:03 pm
  70. Colleen says:

    "Would people here support buying the land next to Aurora PP and putting up a Adoption Agency and Crisis Pregnancy Center?
    Would you support time and money to the Adoption Agency and Crisis Pregnancy Center?"

    Wouldn't that be awesome! I would support it 100%!
    Colleen

    October 3rd, 2007 at 7:05 am
  71. Erin says:

    Tiffany–

    The reason people are even suggesting that PP separate their abortion services from the rest of their stuff is because of their own rhetoric. It's an argument I've heard time and again–"it's only 10% of our services. Why would you want to deny women health care?" (a false argument already, because the VNA and Aunt Martha's provide all of the services of PP). This is an argument used against the pro-life movement, and we are simply stating our willingness to support non-abortion services. In affect, I'm willing to call their bluff-but I'm confident they won't respond because, like you, they simply believe in abortion.

    Regarding "my body, my choice" that is one of the most repellent and false battle cries ever to plague a movement. It is your body when you decide to have sex. But, once a baby is conceived, their is another body to consider. What are they forcibly removing during an abortion except another body? Another body with its own blood type and DNA and fingerprints and heartbeat and feelings? Once you are pregnant, there is a baby. A baby is not your own body and more than my two toddlers are my own body right now. It's false and wrong.

    Also, we're not stupid. We know abortion is legal. Please stop implying that we do not know the laws of this country. But, just because it is legal does not make it right or moral.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 7:33 am
  72. kristin says:

    mayorsoffice@aurora-il.org

    Dear Mayor Weisner,

    I am an Aurora citizen.

    I live two blocks away from the new Planned Parenthood clinic.

    I really wish you had stepped in to stop this place from opening.

    I believe birth control should be available to women, but since this place offers abortion too, I get to think about all of the babies being butchered two blocks away from where I am raising my infant son.

    I don't want to live in the city that has the "nation's largest planned parenthood (infanticide) clinic".

    If this place doesn't close, or stop offering abortions, I am moving.

    As of now, I am downright embarrassed to be a citizen of your city.

    Please search your heart some more.

    Sincerely,

    Kristin
    Aurora, IL

    October 3rd, 2007 at 7:51 am
  73. Tom says:

    With regard to Planned Parenthood opening in her neighborhood, kristin says, "I believe birth control should be available to women, but since this place offers abortion too, I get to think about all of the babies being butchered two blocks away from where I am raising my infant son."

    It is very important to note that many forms of artificial birth control (including the Pill) can actually cause very early abortions by preventing the newly conceived child from implanting in the lining of the womb. For more information on how artificial birth control works, go to the following web page:

    http://www.all.org/issues_birthcontrol.php

    October 3rd, 2007 at 10:49 am
  74. Kay says:

    I am Pro life and Proud of it however, I don't condone bashing people and pushing aborted fetus in front of abortion clinets. Do you know their situation? Do you know thier health problems? Do you know if they live with abusive family member? It goes down to this that pepole don't know why a woman has an abortion. Standing against abortion is one thing and standing with hatred and graphic signs is another. Your not going to be able to stop every abortion. There are other abortion clinics in Aurora and neighboring cities. Goe else where and defend life and leave these innocent woman that needs help in a crisis alone. What about alive babies? Do you support anything against murdring the out of womb and Born victims? What about If a teenager and or woman goes in a public bathroom and has a baby and flushes down the toliet or leave it by the dumpster?
    What I am asking is why are you pushing hatred on these people? I am against planned parenthood myself and abortions but, I don't need to close a clnic just because my Church and my Bible and my family says it wrong.
    You need a clinic like this for people that don't know any better. You need this for the woman that needs pap smeals and other health issues.
    Also I read that abortion is the only recovery operation there is there. What about a D and C? What about an emercancy c section? What about a vesticomy? Come on now there is more then one use of the clinics recovery room sheesh.
    Call me evil Christina pro lifer go ahead but, I just want to give my two cents worth.
    Plus, this is in someones back yard. I used to work at Dominicks years ago next that clinic. If I was there I would be very upset going to work the last month and half.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 12:08 pm
  75. Kay says:

    I have forgot to mention that I am a formally An Aurora resident as you can tell I worked there years ago and I was Born and raised and Married. However, I am in Eastern TN and this is totally impacting the whole country and I remember that the City of Aurora was known as Waynes World and City of Lights. Now it's going t be known as city of slaughter and Planned parenthood debeate.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 12:12 pm
  76. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Hi Kay,

    Thank you for the response. In regard to the graphic signage- Unfortunately, you will see them for as long as Planned Parenthood stays in our neighborhood. Although they are ugly- that is exactly what happens when unborn babies are aborted- they are dismembered and oftentimes beheaded. Although I choose to bow my head in prayer and offer a different witness- I fully support those who display such signs. This is a grassroots effort where upon thousands from this community and the out-lying areas have descended upon Aurora to voice their opposition to the Abortion Clinic that is responsible for such atrocities as the ones you refer to in the pictures……

    Some display these graphic images b/c testimony after testimony we hear from woman nation and worldwide who did not have an abortion b/c of those pictures- testimony after testimony we hear from people who had a change of heart and recognize because of those pictures that abortion is never a choice. And testimony after testimony abortionists say they hate these signs b/c they rock their very conscience every time they have to look at one.

    Abortion cannot be just a pretty "word" or a just a "choice". These babies have their lives end in such violent ways, and unfortunately the pictures reflect just that. Your anger is displaced at us who are trying to stop this assault on our young, and precious babies. My daughters have been at the other Aurora abortion clinic (we just closed-yeah!) almost every week- graphic signs in full view and woman bent over crying in pain and ashamed of just experiencing abortion. My dear daughters have never been horrified or disgusted, but rather saddened for their little brothers & sisters being harmed. Children look to their parents for a simple but loving explanation. You might be surprised how moved children can be ……..there are others who have children out there too- and never was it disgusting to them… Parents can do alot to win this current war……A simple "these people are out there trying to protect another child from being hurt like the pictures- let's pray for all these witnesses and for all mothers to choose to bring life to children."

    Please do me this favor- read Jill Stanek's testimony The Case for the use of Graphic Pictures (Emmet Till & Abortion) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/947446/posts. It will shed a lot of light on the use of graphic pictures.
    Jane

    October 3rd, 2007 at 12:39 pm
  77. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Kay-

    Try this…
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/947446/posts

    the other didn't work. Otherwise do a search for The Case for the use of Graphic Pictures (Emmet Till & Abortion) by Jill Stanek on the freerepublic.com website.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
  78. Elizabeth says:

    Kay- I do not believe any of us are "pushing hate" as you have called it. I have been to pretty much every pro-life rally that has occurred at this particular planned parenthood and all we have ever done is pray and sing loudly. Yes, there were 2 people if I recall being smart and saying nasty things but they were quickly asked to be peaceful and loving, and then we went back to singing/praying. I don't really see why you would view our prayers as hatred, because they are precisely the oppposite.

    Elizabeth

    October 3rd, 2007 at 2:26 pm
  79. Elizabeth says:

    Kay-another thing. I would be upset the last month and half too if I worked at Dominick's. Except I would be upset at the right people: Planned Parenthood for building a baby-killing facility in a residential neighborhood. Not at the people exercising their right to peacefully protest.

    Elizabeth

    October 3rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
  80. Denise says:

    Tell me why PP i bad for, per your words, "hispanics, blacks, minorities"? Aren't we all people? Why pick out those groups?

    Sounds like veiled rasicm to me.

    Sounds like shoving your beliefs down on other.

    It appears to me that PP cannot effective what happpens in one's home unless one allows it.

    FREE YOUR MIND!

    October 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
  81. Roger says:

    Denise,

    I'm glad you asked your question, but I doubt that many people reading this will believe me. Although it is not at all difficult to do some research for yourself to discover some interesting facts about PP.

    You asked:

    Tell me why PP i bad for, per your words, "hispanics, blacks, minorities"? Aren't we all people? Why pick out those groups?

    Well, I don't mean to be veiled in my response. See if this quote here sounds at all racist to you:

    The Negro Project is the most questionable activity of Sanger regarding race. In 1939, the Birth Control Federation of America initiated the project, which was to promote family planning among the black population of the South, using black ministers. A letter to Clarence Gamble says: "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." (Margaret Sanger to Clarence Gamble, October 19, 1939, Sanger Smith Collection, quoted in Linda Gordon, Woman's Body, Woman's Right: Birth Control in America, second edition [New York: Penguin Books, 1990,] 332-33)
    From angelafranks.com

    You see, most people don't believe the facts about PP. PP was founded by Margaret Sanger, and even to this day, PP has two top awards named after her. (I don't recall the names, something like the "Maggie Award" and another one.)

    Planned Parenthood was founded by a racist woman, and seems to specifically target minority communities. Aurora is packed with minorities. It's one of the reasons I like this town and that we moved to Aurora just this year. I embrace those of other races and cultures.

    "Sounds like shoving your beliefs down on other."

    Shoving beliefs down other's throats is what PP is all about. Check out their teen web site. PP indeed has a "faith" and a philosophy. And they push it onto anyone and everyone. It's not just those here at FVFAPP that want to influence others. PP is all about it.

    Who is the head of PP nowadays? It's Cecile Richards. And guess what her background is in. Healthcare? Wrong, it's in politics. Not healthcare.

    My point is that PP is about a lot more than providing healthcare to needy women. Research them for yourselves. Don't believe me. Ask around. Google them.

    Thanks for coming to this site and for participating.

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 3rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
  82. Kay says:

    peacefully protest? how come I have someone each day emailing and calling me because she is afraid to be at her apartment down the road from the clinic because protesters are doing this.
    I have Gospel Tracts by the way of Abortion and I stood in life chain 5 years ago on Galena while living up North in Aurora,IL.
    I am proud to be pro life but pushing these evil pictures on innocent children that might have nightmares isn't great. Why don't you warn parents next time to not bring children around shopping in that time frame?

    October 3rd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
  83. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Kay-

    I am beginning to wonder about your pro-life record….hmmmmmmmmmmm…something sounds funny.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
  84. Kay says:

    I am not standing in front in public with Dead baby pictures saying abortion is murder. I do however would stand with a regular baby picture says abortion is murder.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pm
  85. Eric Scheidler says:

    About the postcards:

    We sent postcards to every residence in Aurora and Naperville—you're not on "our list" just because we sent you a postcard. The U.S. Postal Service does not require us—or anyone—to get "permission" from the addressee before sending a piece of mail.

    We've received a few nasty e-mails calling the postcard "propaganda" and declaring that it is "full of lies," but not one single person has actually tried to establish the falsehood of any one of the statements made on that postcard.

    About the abortion truck:

    Just check out the license plates. I think they're California plates—in any case, that truck isn't from here. I doubt the driver visits this website.

    But if Aurora is going to play host to the nation's largest abortion facility—and allow that not-for-profit abortuary to operate in contradiction to the zoning laws of the city—then we're all going to have to live with the fact that Aurora will be a regular stop for all manner of anti-abortion campaigns from all over the country—like the group from Milwaukee who were out on the street last week.

    The long and short of it:

    With regard to both the postcards and the graphic abortion signs: you don't have some kind of "right" not to be exposed to messages you don't like in the public square.

    On the contrary: the First Amendment guarantees the rights of all citizens to express their opinions in the public square, whether out on the sidewalk or in your mailbox (which is federal property, by the way).

    You can choose to ignore the message, to turn away or toss the postcard in the recycle bin. Or you can choose to oppose that message with a message of your own.

    But to complain about the fact that a message you don't like is being presented is to complain about freedom of speech itself.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 8:39 pm
  86. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Kay-

    For a "Pro-Lifer" — you sure don't sound very sympathetic towards that dear little baby on the poster who lost his/her life so violently….you know those aren't "reinactment" pictures- no my dear those are the real live pictures of aborted babies- please show a little mercy for those innocent lives. Those pictures do speak to the hearts of many…but evidently not yours.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 8:39 pm
  87. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Eric,
    I have been reading this site nearly daily. My wife and I would never have an abortion. I have to beg to differ with you. If the abortion truck you are speaking about is the red pickup truck with graphic large signs on each side and the back I saw it on Sunday. That truck picked up one of your "prayer warriors" around 430. The driver was a gray haired man probably in his 60's and he picked up a dark haired woman probably in her 60's as well. I have to say that claiming innocence on whose truck it is doesn't float with me. Secondly I have to agree with Kay. You could have had twice the amount of support from the local community. When I say local community I mean the people that could walk to the clinic from their house. If I had a dime for every neighbor of mine who is just so offended at the horrible photos that you all mention above they don't support your cause. What about the little children that you all make cry? What about the families that lost a baby due to illness? I know with your background you are used to the photos but you have to realize that many people never heard of Planned Parenthood and it really cost you a ton of support. I personally have learned more in the last 2 months than I ever cared to know. Lastly to Jane Celeste Fonner do you honestly believe that a rape victim should be forced to have a baby as I saw in a post yesterday? You would force a woman to carry the idea of a rapist's baby in her womb for 9 months? I won't even bring up the subject of incest too. Good luck to you but think about your fellow man the next time you put out one of those signs. No I didn't read Jill Stanek's post to be honest because I am tired of seeing the photos.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 9:04 pm
  88. Roger says:

    I myself tend to find the graphic images pretty disgusting. But isn't that the point?

    We've had years and years of "legal" abortion in the US. What will wake us up to the atrocity that is happening?

    When I went downstate to Obama's rally a while back, I held one of these graphic signs. A group of young African-American boys from some "prep-school" walked by and looked at the signs in dismay. They had heard of the word "abortion", but had NO idea what an abortion was.

    All I could say to them was "It's disgusting, isn't it?"

    They were speechless.

    Rather than harp on the graphic signs – a visual representation of a "woman's right to choose", why not harp on the actual thing itself? What is worse, the sign or the action?

    I'm sorry that these signs turn anyone off. But maybe they are needed to wake up the consciences of Americans?

    PP is all "pretty in pink", but their true color is a deeper shade of red.

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 3rd, 2007 at 9:26 pm
  89. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    "Lastly to Jane Celeste Fonner do you honestly believe that a rape victim should be forced to have a baby as I saw in a post yesterday? You would force a woman to carry the idea of a rapist's baby in her womb for 9 months?"

    1st- how am I forcing "anyone"- I will submit that I pray for every life in the womb no matter how they were conceived because I know WHO the Creator of that life is regardless of the circumstance- Our Heavenly Father…. and to Him we owe the love, honor and courage to bring allow these children to live.

    As I stated so clearly in my post:
    "If we were to consider two infants, one conceived through marital intercourse, the other through forcible rape, would we say that one person was "more human" than the other?
    Two wrongs do not make a right. A second wrong makes a bad situation worse.
    Regardless of the father's identity, the woman is still the mother". Who knows the Joy and Healing that God would provide if only that life were allowed to be lived.

    Yes, Ms. Jackson, I stand by my words. And I would be the 1st one in line to adopt that baby, too!:-)

    Thanks for the opportunity to share,
    Jane

    October 3rd, 2007 at 9:43 pm
  90. dianne says:

    We christians need to pray and act on opening a sizeable christian healthcare center with christian counsel for women offering as much help and aid as possible (possibly help the PIC center with funding) We need to find a location as close to the Planned Parenthood vacinity as possible. Why shouldn't it be done through a group of churches in our city all working together on this one!

    If we fight the battle to see Revival (holy spirit poured out) in our city/nation I believe this could be the strategy above all stragegies for total victory. Whenever God poured out His spirit and brought revival in certain regions many battles on many fronts were won. Addicts, prostitutes and crime plummeted and jail centers closed. Bars closed down and droves of people came into the church seeking to be filled with the Holy Spirit and turning their lives around for the glory of Jesus Christ. Even the schools shifted in what they taught our children and embraced christian values once again. Everything changes when Holy Spirit visits us in a great outpouring. Let our churches unite in prayer for "revival" in the city of Aurora! We need to start fighting the battles on loving one another and exalting one another above our selfs (including churches) and come together for a citywide outpouring of God's spirit. Let us not only come together and truly be brother and sister as individuals but as whole churches truly becoming the family of God in our city. When the harvest of lost souls come in there will be more than enough people to fill all our pews!! We will gain a mighty army for the Lord and have all the help we need to fulfill the call of God on us! Praise God!

    Let Revival come Lord! Help us to work together and give us strategies that bring unity in the body of christ and bring a mighty outpouring of your spirit and kingdom invasion into our city/nation. Quickly…remove any existing spiritual and fleshly barriers that divide us. Remove the walls of religious doctrine that isn't producing the fruit that you are looking for, Lord, Let us not look at each others doctrine but focus on what you want to do Jesus. Bring us into the truth that sets us all free! Reveal to us your plan- purpose- destiny for our city/nation! Lord we cry out for a mighty visitation of revival and healing on our land! Give to us your gift of repentence. Send your Spirit…Send Revival Lord.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 10:04 pm
  91. Eva says:

    I am not craving attention, nor am I competing with anyone. I am just bringing attention to issues and concerns that many (not saying all) pro-choicer's have with the pro-lifer's.

    When I raise the questions I have, it is to try to understand and create a facts only debate, without including religious beliefs or biblical references. Although I know that ones opinion is quite often strongly religiously based, it seems to me to be of great importance to keep discussions of this sort based on concrete info, and not references to religious figures, be it Jesus, Allah or Muhammed. As a previous comments states, sometimes one is forced into a situation which may force one to make a personal moral decision, rather than a religiously, morally based decision.

    I too have my masters degree, in comparative literature, and I wrote alot about Jean Paul Sartre, whom was a very close and dear friend of S.d.B. And no, she did not "remove" women from the law by arguing that it was okay for them to commit murder, prostitute or molest children. Seriously… But seeing that nature created men and women differently, she did believe that a womans choice to terminate/not terminate was empowering, and on some levels transferred power back to women, from men. And if you are going to argue that young girls and teenager are being exploited, then it would be expected that they weren't used in your demonstrations. It seemes to me that one should at least be of reproductive age, and have "life experience" in order to protest such an important and difficult subject.

    In my mind, even if you believe that being gay is a choice (something in which I strongly disagree), and you argue that anything is better than abortion, that isn't it better to allow gays to adopt if they are deemed equaly fit to adopt as a heterosexual couple? It's an either/or decision – if you are pro life, you can not make stipulations as to whom can/can not adopt
    based on sexual preference. Eg: Only heterosexual couples, ages between x and x with income qualifications between x and x are allowed to adopt. In a way, isn't that than saying that women/couples that do not meet these qualifications should not have children in the first place…?

    In a recent magazine ad, they interviewed the only female supreme court judge, and she voiced her frustration with regards to womens rights and abortion. We are constantly told what we can or can not do. Whom we can talk to, what we should eat. They tap our phones and track our every step. But they have never been able to comtrol individual will and opinion. They have tried, but have failed. After all, you are able to demonstrate in front of PP, and I am allowed to write on this webpage.

    Regardless of circumstances, an abortion is a difficult, and personal descision, and only the person who choses/choses not to abort is the one who should be left with the moral dilemma and heartbreak of such a decision. You are allowed to practice your faith, and no, I am not allowed to shoot heroin up my veins. I am however allowed to terminate a pregnacy if I see fit, and should NOT be judged because of it.

    P.S. This is actually one of the few forums that currently allow for discussion about this topic, so I applaude F.A.P.P for their open webpage.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm
  92. Eva says:

    Rape is one of the largest causes of action related depression and suicide among women. Rape victims are much more likely to be abusive. Rape victims are at higher risk for emotional and behavioural instability. After being traumented and exposed to such a horrible act, how can one enjoy ones pregnacy and parenthood with a constant reminder of the crime comitted? Do not judge until you have walked one day in another mans shoes…

    As I was driving home tonight, another lovely picture caught my eye. A blow up of a bloody, decpitated head, seemingly missing half a brain.
    We try to protect our children from most everything these days, and rightfully so. Parental controls on computers and tv in order to scorn our children from the at times harsh reality of the world we live in. We don't let them watch violent movies with bodyparts strewn all over the place, we can barely let them watch the news anymore with all the horrors going on in the world. Yet it is ok for full schoolbusses to drive past such a photograph? One thing is allowing these sorts of pictures in an adult only setting – after all, it is the reality of the situation and should not be hidden, another is letting innocent minds see. They will be exposed to more than enough, so let them keep their innocent minds as long as they can.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 pm
  93. Library Betty says:

    Eva –

    I saw your post and wanted to respond. I consider myself a strong feminist and a pro-life supporter. I am a single person who has raised my own daughter entirely on my own following a 'surprise' pregnancy. I have never married,but have completed a masters degree and worked as the sole financial and care provider for my child.

    I can't understand the professional feminist groups and the whole NOW crowd's promotion of abortion as a form of empowerment. Why should killing be seen as empowerment — anyone can choose to do that, man or woman. Only women can give birth, we are the only ones who have that ability. It is the real difference between the sexes and should be celebrated, not negated that advantage by encouraging abortion.

    Empowerment, I think, is about seeking to change society for the better — bring about positive change. How better in empower than to nuture and influence a child. I strive to raise my daughter as a positive member of this world who sees men and women as truly equal and valuable.

    It seems illogical that the feminist movement encourages abortion. From a totally political point of view, they are eliminating their own future generation — or at least thinning the ranks.

    Also, because of the stringent stand in favor of abortion, NOW and other groups have really failed to help in larger issues. In China, female children are often aborted or killed at birth. NOW can't really take a stand about that, can they.

    The current woman's movement is so stuck in the 1960's and 70's, so Boomer focused. Women are in the workforce, women in many positions of power — the world has changed. Aborting babies didn't get them there — it's voting and working as equals in the world. If only the movement focused on today's issues like equal work for equal pay or elevating the life of 3rd world women — then it may have a future.

    Being against life is being against women. Let's all work at a society that works for the positive, not the negative.

    October 3rd, 2007 at 10:41 pm
  94. Net says:

    Looks like our fine town DOES NOT listen to the rantings of your fanatic cult. "Planned Parenthood stopped more unwanted pregnancies (thus more abortions) than you've done in your entire lives." -Anonymous

    —————-

    Anonymous … the above (that you wrote in your post) was in part a quote from Steve Trombley in Wednesday's Tribune. My husband and I are pro-life and are pretty amazed at how twisted Mr. Trombley is that he can even say that … although the "business" he is in has a lot to do with the result of his person. We pray for him; we hope he turns around in time to save his sorry soul.

    October 4th, 2007 at 2:18 am
  95. Net says:

    Regarding the graphic abortion posters, they remind me of the various images of martyred saints. And while they are, of course, painful to look at, they represent in actuality the miraculous gift of life – at such a tender young age – that Christ has bestowed to each and every one of us reading this page. That we allow our mothers in America to bloody up and destroy this life within them, yet cringe when one (even in Naperville!) kills off her kids in the "comfort" of their mother's womb … er, I mean home, creates a mixed-up thought pattern in all of us. Outside the womb, you are a sick monster to kill your kids. Inside the womb, you are a woman who has this very same "option" and are referred to as normal? What a cold cruel world we live in? It all starts with the senseless destruction of Christ's creations … and will end with our most certain death to darkness if we continue to embrace and allow it.

    October 4th, 2007 at 2:55 am
  96. Eric Scheidler says:

    Leviticus Jackson—Thanks for your remarks. I appreciate your taking the time to visit this site; clearly you're the kind of person that cares about his community.

    However, I cannot agree with your analysis of our effort. My organizatoin has used graphic abortion pictures on precisely one day—the August 25 rally attended by over 1,300 area citizens. And we set up large Warning Signs positioned in all four directions to allow drivers to avoid the display.

    During the 40-Day Vigil (which became a 55-Day Vigil), I made every effort to keep the graphic signs away. But I also received several calls and e-mails complaining about graphic abortion pictures when there were none—several people "saw" an abortion abortion when they beheld a beautiful picture of an eight-week-old unborn baby.

    The Fox Valley Families group includes many who live in the immediate neighborhood of Planned Parenthood, as well as thousands throughout Aurora and the surrounding community. I started with 80 e-mail addresses and now send to 1,600. We've distributed over 3,000 yard signs. As grassroots coalitions go, this one is pretty amazing.

    Leviticus, what you're really saying, it seems to me, is that if we didn't make anyone uncomfortable, we would have more local support. Our goal isn't to make anyone uncomfortable, but we've heard your same comment—"you'd get more sympathy if you didn't …"—with regard to even the prayer vigil itself; pro-life activism of any description makes people uncomfortable.

    Why is that? Why does the sight of three or four elderly people praying the Rosary on a street corner near an abortion facility—without any signs of any kind—inspire drivers to rev their engines, swerve threateningly, shout obscenities and call the police?

    If only the graphic signs brought out this kind of reaction, I might think you were right about them. But we've been called "disgusting" for holding signs with a picture of a six-month-old baby on them; and called "offensive" for passing out flyers on fetal development that don't even use the word "abortion."

    We hear the objection, "What am I supposed to tell my kid about that abortion sign?"—but we also hear the objection, "What am I supposed to tell my kid about you standing on the sidewalk praying?"

    So I have to conclude that the problem isn't the use of graphic images. It goes much deeper than that.

    I would suggest that the real problem is a deep social guilt over the the crime of abortion. From our graphic pictures to our prayer vigils, our presence troubles the conscience of the nation.

    That, anyway, is my take on it, based on my experience as a pro-life activist.

    As to the abortion truck, I'm sure you don't mean to question my honesty. So the driver has made the acquaintance of some local pro-lifers—that doesn't alter the fact the he's from out of state and here on his own volition.

    October 4th, 2007 at 6:12 am
  97. Paul says:

    Pictures of aborted babies are and will always be very difficult to look at. We would rather not show them, but as in the case of the Nazi holocaust victims, as in the case of Emmett Till in 1955, as in the case of the victims of the Khmer Rouge, or the concentration camp victims in the Serbian war on Croatia in the early 1990's, these images must be seen by as many people as possible. They tell the truth.

    If the photos of aborted babies disturbs you, you have Planned Parenthood and other abortionists' baby-killing centers to blame. THEY are the ones who are killing these poor, precious infants.

    I suspect that there will be some moderation in the display of the pictures. I have been out at the killing center site over the past month and a half on weekdays, evenings, weekends, and have only seen the big graphic pictures a few times. The opening of the killing center on Tuesday was a very good opportunity to show those photos because the mainstream news media were there in full force. They still refuse to ever show those pictures, but at least the cameramen and reporters see them. And the PP supporters see them. And God sees us all. He sees what is happening on the outside of the killing center, and He sees what is and what will happen on the inside of the killing center. And most of all, He sees into each and every soul of everyone, all the pro-life protesters, all the pro-abortion PPers, Steve Trombley, Eric Scheidler, me, you, everyone.

    So we had better all do some very deep and honest soul-searching and see if we stand in the truth. The truth about abortion becomes easily self-evident when one looks at and studies the photos of the millions upon millions of victims of abortion: the tiny babies. There are also thousands of women who have died from LEGAL abortions. Women are dying all the time from LEGAL abortions. A young woman died this past September from a botched abortion at a Planned Parenthood out east, (New York, I think). The doctor is being sued for gross negligence and malpractice.

    How many women is the Aurora Planned Parenthood killing center going to kill? Can Mayor Weisner and Steve Trombley and the Aurora city council accept responsiblity for the deaths of thousands of babies and some of the mothers going in there? And for the many souls who will be plunged into a terrible state of mortal sin, because Weisner made it easy for PP to open their dark doors of death?

    Pray. Pray like your life depended on it. Pray for God's mercy: mercy on the city of Aurora; mercy on the promoters and providers of abortion at Planned Parenthood; mercy on the mayor of Aurora; mercy on all the women going into that killing center; mercy on all the people in Aurora, Illinois and the entire country. There is no way America can go on as a nation if it keeps killing its own children by the millions and millions every year. May God have mercy on us!

    October 4th, 2007 at 6:21 am
  98. Paul says:

    If graphic photos of abortion are too much for anyone to look at, then maybe reading a description which compares the way the Nazis committed genocide on Jews and others during WWII, with abortion will convince any so-called "pro-choice" persons of the horror of abortion:

    http://www.cbrinfo.org/Resources/summer_9905.html

    October 4th, 2007 at 6:30 am
  99. Elizabet says:

    Library Betty-

    I just wanted to say go girl! I am a single mom too going to school to be a nurse and be the sole financial and everything else provider for my daughter! And THAT to me is the most empowering thing a woman can do! It is amazing the things the human spirit can handle if we all trusted ourselves a little more!

    Elizabeth

    October 4th, 2007 at 8:20 am
  100. Paul says:

    For the record, the man with the graphic images on his little pickup truck is an independent crusader. He has no connection with Families Against Planned Parenthood or the Pro-Life Action League. I met him last Saturday, he was driving around and around the Planned Parenthood at La Salle and Division in Chicago. He just goes where he thinks he's making an impact. No one invited him to Aurora. And yes he is from California, but doesn't really live there now. The phone no. on the truck is a Michigan number,-a friend of his who takes calls for him.

    October 4th, 2007 at 8:41 am
  101. Jerry Nickels says:

    It is interesting that the conversation would turn to the holocaust the day after viewing that particular episode of Ken Burns' series on WWII. The horrible images of what allied soldiers found when liberating those death camps should never be forgotten. The tough part for us is to view them, but view them we must because to ignore them would be to our own peril.

    So too with the question of showing the reality of what abortion does to the unborn. It is not a pretty sight. We are blessed to live here in peace, our lives untouched by the reality of extreme poverty and violence which afflicts much of the world. We really do not want to see those things any more than we want to see the gruesome reality of abortion.

    When asked about the reality of the death camp outside their city the residents claimed ignorance, right down to the local vicar. The allied troops found that incredible, as the stench of death permeated the air for miles. So the commander of the liberating force had all of the residents come through the camp and view firsthand what they had for so long willfully ignored.

    What excuse do we have? No longer are there references as in the early 1970's to abortion as merely the removal of "globs of tissue" and "fetal matter". Even though some were fooled by those characterizations then, we don't have that excuse today. The new ultrasound technologies offer incredible images that leave no doubt. And the scary thing is that there are those who almost boastfully say that even though they do know abortion kills a baby they still are in favor of abortion. Fortunately, those are in the minority, but many are so caught up in the "choice" rhetoric so as to have lost sight of that reality.

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:56 am
  102. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Eric,
    Thank you for your reply and let me correct something. I was not challenging your honesty I was challenging your facts. As leader of an organization I am surprised you didn't know about the abortion truck man. I understand every general doesn't know every private but as Paul was kind enough to point out that sure seems like somebody knows this man. What is great about this country is that people can protest and disagree and that is legal. In many countries people could be hung for that. As a person who lives within walking distance and somebody who passes by the clinic every day I have to beg to differ with you on one more issue. On the average there has been a horrible abortion photo about once a week. I know at your rally you did put a warning sign up there and I do tip my hat to whoever thought of the warning sign. There is one man who I would guess in his mid to late 40's with a moustache and light brown hair who must have a collection of them. He was there all day Monday and by 6pm there was another man holding the sign and resting his head on it like it was a day in the park. They face the sign so people in the cars can see it as they drive on Oakhurst. I wish you well in your quest but this issue won't be solved in our children's children's lifetime until you all get your pro choice candidates elected. By the way the community never minded the praying they did mind the photos. It was discussed at many associaton meetings. I know with your background you are used to it but this community isn't and hopefully won't have to be. Keep brewing the beer!

    October 4th, 2007 at 10:31 am
  103. Sally says:

    I am 100% pro-life and have spent many hours at the now-closed "clinic" on Galena and at this one on Oakhurst. I feel very blessed to be able to be one of Our Lord's soldiers in this great spiritual battle! I am covered with his armour and my weapon is the rosary and prayer, both peaceful but powerful! As far as the pictures are concerned, Fr. Pavone always says that aborition will not stop until we see what abortion is!! How true that is. We are now horrified as we look at the pictures of the Holocast and all proclaim that we would never let that happen again…however, it is happening…right here in Aurora and all over the world. We all look at the crucifix everyday….it is a reminder of Jesus' great sacrifice for all of us…he has redeemed us by his passion and death. The crucifix is not pretty to look at and reminds us of our sinfulness, but we look at it to remind us how blessed we all are and how we must sacrifice our comfort (looking at the pictures of aborted babies) so that we will be strengthed to go out and put an end to this horrible sin. At the same time, I will be happy to bring pictures of my two beautiful nephews that were just born a few months ago so everyone can look at two beautiful baby boys who just left their mothers' wombs!

    October 4th, 2007 at 10:51 am
  104. Kay says:

    Why Do I seem like I am not Pro life if I am offended by Aborted baby pictures? Your scaring all of the Aurora and surrounding area with those pictures. i have websites that has more aborted babies on them and I send them to people but that is an adult and in private of my own home. Not in public and not pushing it.
    Will this protesting continue the next few weeks? Because I am going to be coming to Aurora next week and I don't want my visit be upset over protesting.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:13 am
  105. Sally says:

    I wouldn't say that we are scaring ALL of Aurora, my family and grandchildren are from Aurora and Batavia and we are offended by the fact that abortion is legal. We are not detered by the pictures and yes, they are horrible to look at. It doesn't scare my teenagers or my young grandchildren, it makes them want to save the babies and heal the mother and fathers. They ask me to take them there so they can pray. I never like looking at the pictures, but I don't want any baby to go through that.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:26 am
  106. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Kay-

    Yes, we will all be there as long as this death camp remains open….but we'd prefer to call it "witnessing for life" rather than protesting…Our heads are bowed with hope & prayers for all those involved in the killing of the preborn….and even those who choose to carry those signs are called "witnesses" as their charitable time is spent standing in opposition and as a reminder to those who would call such a violent death "a mere choice".

    Today my 3 year old daughter and I knelt to kiss "that graphic" photo you refer to. We did this as an act of reverence to the dear, innocent child snuffed from his mother's womb so violently. His little head hanging by a forceps. My daughter is always saddened to see that baby picture and willingly knelt to pay tribute to her deceased sister in Christ- never disgusted. Perhaps we all can learn from the littlest among us.

    We welcome you to join us in prayer at the clinic when you pay another visit to Aurora.

    With prayers, Jane

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:32 am
  107. Kay says:

    Your acting like Abortion is only in your area. I as a former Aurorian know that there are worse places in the country that does more murdering.
    I pray for the unborn without Rosery's and equipment. I pray to the Lord in my daily mediations and Bible reading. I even have a Bible study why Abortion is wrong. It just that those pictures are to be toned down a bit.
    I didn't get it did all of Aurora Residents get those info? My parents lives in West of Aurora and I am not sure if that side got that info.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:35 am
  108. Kay says:

    Oh one more thing I am sorry I am sounding to harsh just that I don't like to see my two friends hurt by the pictures they seen. They understand your cause and I do to however, there is a right way and wrong way to show people.
    Yes, I would use those pictures but to show the person that considers having an abortion.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:38 am
  109. Sally says:

    God Bless you Kay….keep praying…The Lord will answer our prayers. God Bless you Jane and your beautiful little daughters. Hope to see you and witness along side of you. Jesus has set my heart on fire with love for him and my neighbor(and the babies and their parents) as he wishes the whole world was!!!

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:47 am
  110. Net says:

    Kay – Hopefully the prayer warriors in Aurora will continue until PP moves out! It's too bad that you are upset by the photographs, but showing these pictures to your friends via the computer in the privacy of your own home probably doesn't do a heck of a lot in helping to save lives. As long as abortion is HIDDEN, it will remain the dark evil extraordinary sin that it is. To be honest, I'd rather see more (not fewer) posters featuring children that have been aborted. In fact, why don't we set up a camera over PP's dumpster and project some live dead shots. When are people going to GET it? Abortion is murder and until the majority of us stand together on this, it will remain a [very] dark spot on America.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:48 am
  111. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Kay,
    Have a safe trip back home. I sense the pain in your words and I agree with you but as a parent we choose different ways to raise children. I for one can't bring my child to the clinic because of those photos and Jane has her child kiss the horrible photos. I couldn't do that but she can and God Bless her for that. I hate the photos and so far haven't really heard a good reason why the point can't be made without it but that is why life is what you make of it.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:54 am
  112. Kay says:

    Yes I agree with you Levaciious. I am not a parent yet however, We are working on our first. Some people we know would say abort it. I say I am not aborting a child we been wanting for 5 years now. My husband is alittle older then I am and I am turning 30 next month. So I feel I am reading for a few babies. I used to take Birth Control for medical reasons however, I gave it up to God and he is help me in my illiness of irregular monthlys. I know this is off the subject but wanted to pointed out that I am not to evil and I am also Pro life.

    October 4th, 2007 at 11:58 am
  113. Net says:

    Leviticus, if a mom tells her child it's not a good idea to smoke cigarettes, how much does the child actually pay attention especially if he/she does not smoke (yet doesn't care all that much if others do)?

    If she, however, points out and displays a recent photo of "grandma" who has smoked for 37 years, is frequently on oxygen, has had two strokes, one bypass, grapples for breath and looks like hell, and is only 53 years old, will the child then listen a little better? And maybe even point out to others the dangers of smoking? I would think that would be the case, at least somewhat. If there are those that are ambivalent to abortion that pass by a poster featuring an aborted baby, well, maybe they will think some more about abortion and eventually see it what it truly is. That is the hope of the pro-lifer … and the hope of Our Risen Lord.

    October 4th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
  114. Paul says:

    Leviticus, and anyone interested,

    Here is a webpage with numerous articles explaining and defending the use of graphic images of aborted children to convert hearts and change minds:

    http://priestsforlife.org/articles/graphicimages.html

    A very brief article,
    "Visual Learning and the Culture of Life"
    is by Dr. Alveda King, niece of the late Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., and an outspoken pro-life leader, who herself had two abortions. Also, be sure to read her short piece titled:
    "How Can the Dream Survive?", link to it from the African American Outreach Page link in the previous article mentioned.

    On this feast day of St. Francis of Assisi, may I wish everyone: "Peace, and all Good!" "Pax et bonum"

    October 4th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
  115. Jane Ann says:

    Thank you, Pro-Lifers, for the motivation to take action!

    I live on the far East side of Aurora. I've started keeping a talley-sheet on my dashboard. Every time I see the red abortionmobile, I put a mark on the sheet. Each mark represents a dollar I will donate to Planned Parenthood at the end of October.

    October 4th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
  116. Eric Scheidler says:

    Jane Ann—While I think your generosity is misplaced, I commend you for it.

    October 4th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
  117. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Hi All!
    I have been posting blogs on the Beacon Blog Site- Misrepresentation, but no fraud BY DAVE PARRO. I could use a little help. A delightful lady named Elena has many questions and I am limited lately with time to respond.
    Thank you!!
    Jane

    October 4th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
  118. Amy and Kids says:

    Jane Ann – We also like your charitable spirit! My children came up with the idea of matching your donation. Of course they would like to sent their money to a pro-life group. Let us know how much we should send.

    A message from my 13 year old son: We went to the abortion clinic in aurora and prayed for an hour on 2 occasions and plan on going back. I don't like the graphic pictures either but I think people need to see them.

    October 4th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
  119. Kathi says:

    Jane, I think I was kicked off the Beacon Blog site awhille back for mentioning God, or I'd be there for you. I just got caught up on my reading of this blog site and would like to give Library Betty a hug. What a great testamony!
    Nobody is more grossed out by thoes pictures than I am. I've had a very weak stomach from the day I was born or should I say conceived. I have prayed at Planned Parenthood numerous times and I can honestly say I have never fully looked at those pictures. I choose to avert my eyes. I really do see both sides of this issue. The photos are trying to say, Hey, this isn't a glob of tissue it's a baby don't you know, just look. I don't need to see to believe, but there are visual learners out there. I live in the neighborhood too and have seen the truck. I'm not trilled with it but they won't be here anymore when Planed Parenthood leaves. Aborted babies bother me alot more than the truck. When I was at the abotion site today someone was telling me that a worker had seen huge garbage disposal equipment in this building, (to grind up the bones of the babies) this will become part of our drinking water. It just gets worse by the day.

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
  120. Elizabeth says:

    Jane-Anne. Good for you. I'm sure the babies will thank you someday for contributing to their deaths.

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
  121. HR says:

    HI,

    I've got a question for y'all!

    As word of introduction, I'm pro-life. I'm pro-life in cases of rape and incest. I'm pro-life when the baby's is severely compromised. Years ago I was jailed for sitting in front of clinics. I even have one of your signs in my front yard. I'm one of you. PP's deceptive actions and the hard work of many in this organization has rekindled the too long dormant passion of this former pro-life activist. Thanks!

    I visit some pro-choice blogs and post occasionally. I try to add to the discussion, always being respectful. One such blog recently stated there are people in this group who are photographing the license plates of "women and staff arriving at and leaving the clinic."

    Is this:
    a) a complete fabrication,
    b) a misunderstood account of a real activity, or
    c) really happening?

    I have seen the pics of PP folks entering the building they did not yet have legal access to. I'm sorry our local government did not have the gumption to enforce their own laws. I'm also a photographer and understand it is legal to take a photo of anything which is visible from a public place; photographers get nabbed on publication, not creation. (That's why a private investigator can park at your curb and take pics of you in your living room.) But legality is not the issue here; many pro-lifers are Christians and we're required to act in love. What possible good could come from knowing the license plate number of a patient or member of their staff?

    Thanks!

    HR

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
  122. HR says:

    Edit of HR's post" first paragraph should read…"when the baby's health is severely compromised." -sorry

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
  123. Roger says:

    Jane Ann says:
    Every time I see the red abortionmobile, I … will donate to Planned Parenthood at the end of October.

    Jane Ann,

    I think this will only work fairly if you donate a dollar to the Pro-Life Action League every time you DO NOT see the "red abortionmobile".

    You can donate online too!

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
  124. Elizabeth says:

    HR-I was wondering if that was true as well..cause I read that too on one of their blogs and I was like hmmm…I don't know about that! So if you find anything out let me know!

    Elizabeth

    October 4th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
  125. Heidi says:

    May God have mercy on our mayor's soul. I have been sitting here for the last hour reading both sides of the abortion debate, and it is AWESOME!!! If everyone in Aurora could be a part of this dialogue instead of only reading the biased newpapers, I think people would really start to see the truth—that ABORTION IS MURDER!!! I think pro-choicers are so angry right now because they see our numbers growing and the pictures are the great instrument of actually showing the truth, and it PRICKS THEIR CONSCIENCES.

    I've been a life-long resident of Aurora, and I am so ashamed of my city. Yeah, Yeah, I could take the easy way out and move, but NOOOOOOO!!!! I am NOT going to have my city be the abortion capital of the U.S.A. I am going to FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT , and maybe, just maybe, Aurora will be the spark to overturn Roe vs. Wade. How do I know? Because God said so. The Good Book has already been written. We win, so ha, ha, ha!

    October 4th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
  126. LA says:

    I really felt the need to post this as I am upset that I could have just caused an accident. I live in the area and needed to get vitamins this morning so I had stopped at Dominick's and would not be able to get out in traffic on Eola so I had to go past the Planned Parenthood. I honestly understand and believe everyone has their right to their opinions and beliefs. However, I don't feel that it is okay to have such huge pictures of aborted children at that intersection. First, I need to say that I have read the information on why people choose to use them. Honestly, for someone who is just trying to get by there without having that gruesome picture distract your driving skills is very difficult. I am 7 months pregnant and I felt sick to my stomach and almost caused an accident trying to turn out of the area without it being in my sight. I know that is your purpose in trying to get people to understand the gruesome and unfair treatment of these babies but it is not safe to the drivers. I also am so thankful that my 2 1/2 yr old daughter was not in the car with me because she doesn't need to see that. My job as a parent is to protect her and when she is old enough to understand, I will explain it to her but 2 1/2 is way too young. I will not subject my daughter who is excited for her new sister to come to have nightmares of those types of pictures. My question for you to ask yourselves is do you also show your young children pictures of gory murder victims who were wrongfully killed or gory pictures of men and women who have lost their lives fighting in the war? I think there is a time and place for those pictures but at what cost. How would you feel if someone was seriously hurt in a car accident by trying to concentrate on the road and having that picture right in your view? I am just thankful that I don't live in that direct neighborhood and pray for any parent and child who does and has to deal with that. Thank you for letting me share my opinion.

    October 5th, 2007 at 8:52 am
  127. Jane Ann says:

    Jane Ann,
    I think this will only work fairly if you donate a dollar to the Pro-Life Action League every time you DO NOT see the "red abortionmobile".

    This would make perfect sense if I had not spent the past two years living here without ever seeing this disgusting show. Without worrying about protecting my child from this imagery.

    Up until now I had never given Planned Parenthood a second thought. I've always considered myself Pro-Life in that I think abortion is wrong and immoral. Unfortunately, the behavior of some Pro-Life extremists has made me ashamed to consider myself an anti-abortion Christian. I feel that parading around subjecting the public to these images and taking photographs of clinic patients and their license plates is scary behavior and by allowing it to continue it makes the rest of us look like we agree with it.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:19 am
  128. Roger says:

    Jane Ann says:

    I will donate to Planned Parenthood at the end of October.
    … abortion is wrong and immoral.
    … consider myself an anti-abortion Christian.
    … makes the rest of us look like we agree with it.

    Jane Ann,

    To me, you seem to contradict yourself. If you are a Christian and believe abortion is wrong and immoral, why would you EVER support an abortion clinic? To me, this makes us look bad. As much as you don't agree with the pictures, going to this extreme is immoral in and of itself.

    (When I read your post, I thought you were a PP supporter. I hope I'm wrong about you, but I only have a limited view of you through your posts.)

    What are you thinking? Why does this not make any sense to me?

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:55 am
  129. Renee says:

    Jane Anne,

    Listen, I am against the current war in Iraq, but I would not donate money to to a defense contractor just because I don't like the tactics of Cindy Sheehan. That makes no sense.

    You can not possibly help get the graphic abortion sign out of public view by assisting the abortion industry. That will only do the reverse.

    It sounds to me like you need to really think your position on this through, and then act in a consistent manner.

    If you support abortion, donate to PP.

    If you don't, then don't.

    But don't think that pro-life protesters are going to be dissuaded from their activities because of your inconsistent reasoning.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:03 am
  130. Erin says:

    Jane Anne-

    I thought that we disagreed morally about abortion, but now that you say you are pro-life, you're not even making sense. I also wish that the graphic images were not used, or at least used in a more targeted way, but I'm not going to support abortionists because of them.

    Perhaps a better way would be to support Crisis Pregnancy Centers, or another organization that promotes life through counselling and non-abortion medical services. That would still make your point about the methods of some protesters without actually encouraging and supporting organizations that devalue life and perform abortions.

    Erin

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:36 am
  131. Jane Ann says:

    Sorry, I gues what I should say is that, while I am against abortion on moral grounds, I am pro-law. I do not believe that anyone who is seeking a LEGAL treatment should be harassed or intimidated in any way, and I feel very bad for these poor patients, many of whom are not actually seeking abortions. I believe that if someone disagrees with this country's laws they should focus their energies into trying to change the law.

    Many may think that it is hypocritical to support Planned Parenthood when I don't believe that abortion is right, but I do feel that PP offers services other than abortion that are very much needed in Aurora. I have lived in Aurora for over 30 years and I have personally witnessed and experienced our lack of affordable medical services for women. I have been to the VNA clinic, when my son was young, and was treated like an ignorant charity case. This was not the case at all! Yes, I was young, but I was a college student working to better myself, not an uneducated "welfare mom." I NEVER returned after the way I was treated by the staff there. Also, the restroom had feces smeared on the wall and the waiting room was filthy. Aunt Martha's is far too small to serve a community as large as Aurora.

    October 5th, 2007 at 11:07 am
  132. Elizabeth says:

    Jane Anne-
    Let's face it. Everything you say just contradicts itself. You are pro-PP therefore you're pro-abortion. End of story. You keep saying things to justify yourself when there is no justification for giving money to an abortion facility if you don't believe in abortion.

    October 5th, 2007 at 11:26 am
  133. Leviticus Jackson says:

    LA,
    I couldn't agree with you more. I know Eric mentioned yesterday that they only used the horrible photos once but that same man was there Monday, yesterday and today. An older man in his 40-50's with light brown hair and a light brown moustache. The pro lifers don't care who sees them and one woman even had her child kiss that photo. I hate the photos and you hate the photos and you words were right on the money. The goal of those photos is to make everybody feel uncomfortable and I think they do their job at the expense of the hard working people of this neighborhood. Wish you the best on your pregnancy and I certainly know how stress is a MAJOR factor for pregnancies.

    October 5th, 2007 at 11:42 am
  134. Roger says:

    Jane Ann,

    I am against slavery, but I donate money to slave owners to purchase more slaves. Slavery is legal, and I'm pro-law. The people who work on the "underground railroad" to help slaves disgust me. Why don't they just focus their energies into trying to change the law? I mean slave owners grow cotton that people need to clothe themselves. Why can't people see the good that they do?

    Thanks,
    Your friendly anti-slavery slave owner supporter

    October 5th, 2007 at 11:43 am
  135. Erin says:

    Jane Anne-

    Boy, I am enjoying this interesting debate, and I hope you are too and not getting angry. I have a couple of responses to your last post.

    First, we live in a culture that as a whole supports the idea of "pro-choice". I have heard so many people say, "Well, personally I think abortion is repugnant, but after all people have a right to choose what's right for them." The pro-choice movement has done its work well. For this reason, we need to change the culture before we have a chance to change the laws. Right now, politicians are so busy pandering to the ideals of "tolerance" and "political correctness" that they are afraid to take a stance against legalized abortion even if they do think abortion is wrong. One way to change the culture is to educate about what abortion is and to bring attention to clinics like PP. Segregation was once legal, and it took a lot of civil disobedience before any governing body would even take a look at it to decide whether or not they should question the Supreme Court decision of Plessy vs. Ferguson.

    Second, regarding PP's other health care. I have no problem with most of what PP does. If people want STD testing, sex ed, and contraceptives, that is really their choice. PP, however, is part of this "culture of death." Underlying all that they do is the idea that pregnancy is optional and that you can do whatever you want to control "your" body. It shows in the way they disregard the input of parents, spouses, and significant others, and the way they refer to a baby as "fetal tissue." On their website, they define pregnancy as starting at implantation, not conception, therefore their "90%" does not include morning-after pill and IUD use.

    If you think Aurora needs the non-abortion medical services, why not support Aunt Martha's or the VNA so they can improve their care. The VNA has a beautiful new building right down the street from us. I've never been there, but my sister-in-law was two years ago for her son's vaccinations and well-baby visits during the first year, and she has told me it was the best pediatric care he has ever received. Your experience there sounds horrible, but apparently they have improved and are probably seeking to improve more.

    Finally, PP is the voice of abortion-rights in every media venue. They actively support pro-choice politicians, they have lobbyists, they are the go-to guys for media outlets. PP right here in Aurora recently hired a professional blogger. What kind of non-profit has the money to hire a professional blogger!?! So think about where your money is going if you donate. It goes not only to medical care and abortions, but also to perpetuating a culture where abortion is taken for granted.

    That's all for now. Can't wait to hear from you again.

    Erin

    October 5th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
  136. John says:

    I have two questions:

    1. If god gave us the ability to create, then did he also give us the ability to destroy?

    2. Is there a difference between killing any human being whether it be from a war or an abortion? Does god view this differently?

    October 5th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
  137. Roger says:

    John,

    Although you seem only to want to antagonize us, I'll answer your questions …

    1. God (upper case "G") does allow us to share in His creation. That is why when a husband and wife come together in marital unity, it is the most beautiful thing on earth. God allows us, his creatures, to share in His creative power. God also gave us free will. Just because we CAN do something does not mean that it is God's will or that it is good for us. Although we can destroy, is it God's will?

    Let's say destroy an old, abandon building. Ok, all is good. Let's say destroy another person. No. Not all is good.

    2. Yes, God views killing an innocent child differently from the killing of a person in war. A child is defenseless, especially in the womb. Where would the child run to for protection? A soldier in war, a "just war", would be defending themselves or others from an aggressor. A soldier can defend themselves, in fact, they are trained to do so.

    Or take for example, a person defending themselves or family from a person attacking them. Self defense in not seen as murder, but self-defense.

    John, I pray that you find the answers you're needing.

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 5th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
  138. John says:

    Roger,

    On the contrary I am not being antogonistic, is was simply a question…thank you for you answer.

    "God views killing an innocent child differently from the killing of a person in war. A child is defenseless, especially in the womb. Where would the child run to for protection? A soldier in war, a "just war", would be defending themselves or others from an aggresso"

    Unfortunately any country who is at war feels that it is a "just war". No matter what side they are on. Also the people who tend to die the most from any war are the people w/out the guns aka civilians.

    In saying that why would God view any life different from another…I thought we were all God's creations?

    October 5th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
  139. Roger says:

    John said: "In saying that why would God view any life different from another…I thought we were all God's creations?"

    John,

    I did not say that God views one life differently (or more valuable) than another. I said that God views the taking of life differently, abortion vs. (war or self-defense).

    Roger

    October 5th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
  140. Renee says:

    Actually, I think God is grieved with all death. I don't think the person causing the death is as culpable in a self-defense issue than in an out right murder, but I believe God is equally saddened by all deaths.

    October 5th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
  141. Renee says:

    Leviticus Jackson~

    About the graphic abortion signs ~

    It seems as if you see pro-life demonstrators as a unified group. It is my understanding that outside of the the big rally 8/25, and the Jericho Marches, the demonstrations have been from individuals acting on their own. This is what we mean by Pandora's box is open, and no one is going to get it closed until PP is gone.

    Eric has no authority over those people with the signs. His organization uses them at very specific times and with warning signs; that he controls. The others, are free agents and no amount of complaining here is going to make them stop.

    We have organized the prayer vigil here, but that's only 2 people at a time. All the rest of the people there are there of their own accord.

    This is why the city should have had public hearing before letting PP build where they did. The neighborhood should have had some say in this.

    October 5th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
  142. Roger says:

    Renee says:
    …I think God is grieved with all death

    Renee,

    I agree. God made us for LIFE, not for death. God is saddened by any and all death.

    October 5th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
  143. LA says:

    I find it interesting that the only person to comment back to my post was Leviticus. It doesn't seem that anyone would like to defend why it is okay for someone to have that large of a picture in drivers faces as they are trying to concentrate on the road. I agree that it is reality of what is happening and it could deter people from going through an abortion. I have looked up some of the references posted about the necessity of these pictures but I don't think you can compare the pictures showing the effects of smoking to these pictures. Can you possibly understand why some people think this is not the best way to convey the message? The gentleman that was holding the sign was exactly on the corner and there was no way for me to avoid not having to stare at it as I was looking to the right to make sure I could turn left on Oakhurst. It was very scary to me to have pulled out in front of someone coming from my right and luckily that car saw me and there was not an accident. Has anyone thought about what could have happened to my baby that I am carrying if I did get in an accident because of trying to avoid that sign?

    Leviticus-I just would like to say thank you for your response & wishes. And thank you for understanding the stress or emotions that can be heightened with pregnancy. I am sorry that you and your family have to deal with those pictures on a regular basis. I hope that at least someone can ask the gentleman holding this large sign to move back a little bit so he is still holding his sign but not in drivers faces. I will not be driving that way again as it is not healthy for me or my daughter to see that.

    October 5th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
  144. LA says:

    Renee-

    I don't want to speak for Leviticus but I don't think he believes that anyone outside protesting is acting as a unified group. I do also respect that Eric uses warning signs. But, can someone not ask this man to move back a little bit at least to not be blocking someone's view while trying to drive safely?

    October 5th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
  145. Renee says:

    LA~

    "But, can someone not ask this man to move back a little bit at least to not be blocking someone's view while trying to drive safely?"

    I see what you are saying. I just don't know the answer.

    I am sorry you have had this experience and fright. I am sorry something as ugly as abortion had to come up in your community while you are pregnant.

    God's choicest blessings to you and your baby. I'll add you to my "expectant mothers" prayer list.

    October 5th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
  146. Kirk says:

    Democracy For Life of Illinois (DFLI), an affiliate of Democrats for Life of America (DFLA), has scheduled a press conference and initial meeting for October 22, 2007 at the Thelma Keller Conference & Convention Center, 1202 N. Keller Drive, Effingham , IL . The event will begin at 6:00 pm. Featured speaker will be Carol Crossed of Rochester, NY, one of the founders of DFLA.

    The purpose of the meeting is to publicly announce the formation of DFLI and explain its goals and purpose. Presentation of “The Case for Pro-Life Democrats” will be made as well as a brief explanation of DFL’s “95-10 Initiative.” Democrats for Life of America, Inc. is a national organization for pro-life members of the Democratic party founded in the year 2000.

    Democrats for Life of America exists to foster respect for life, from the beginning of life to natural death. This includes, but is not limited to, opposition to abortion, capital punishment, and euthanasia. The goal of DFL is to mobilize Democrats at local, state, and national levels to:

    * elect pro-life Democrats to office
    * support pro-life Democrats while in an elected position
    * promote a pro-life plank in the Democratic Party platform
    * achieve pro-life legislation with the help of national and state pro-life democrats
    * participate actively in Democratic party functions and offices

    All members of DFLI, pro-life Democrat officeholders, candidates, and interested members of the public are invited to attend.

    For questions or more information, contact DFLI President:

    David Seiler
    (217) 342-6882
    dseiler6882@consolidated.net
    http://illinois.democratsforlife.org

    October 5th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
  147. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    This film may help our 'Pro_choice" friends change their hearts on this issue……..

    'Lake of Fire' takes camera into abortion clinics

    DIRECTOR Tony Kaye says he was forever changed witnessing the second-trimester abortion. Audiences who see Kaye's new documentary "Lake of Fire" may very well share the British filmmaker's reaction.
    Nearly two decades in the works, "Lake of Fire" is Kaye's epic look at one of the most personal — and sometimes violently contentious — issues of the day: reproductive rights. But rather than fill his 2 1/2 -hour film with nothing but activists, academics and politicians, Kaye goes into the American clinics where the divisive procedures are performed.

    No matter where people stand on the issue, the abortion Kaye presents just 20 minutes into the film will certainly become indelible to many: Concerned that he leave no fragments of an aborted fetus in his patient's uterus, a doctor reassembles the body parts — tiny feet, arms, a head with a clearly discernible face — into a nearly intact whole. And the camera never blinks.

    What sounds like antiabortion agitprop is, in the context of Kaye's film, something very different. "Lake of Fire" is Kaye's attempt to challenge point-blank the lines of reasoning both for and against abortion rights.

    It is "a difficult film," the 55-year-old director says, "a brutally exhausting thing to watch." But as he sees it, "Lake of Fire" had to be that tough: If he didn't show those minuscule body parts, he also couldn't show the photograph of a woman who killed herself trying to end a pregnancy with a coat hanger.
    Documentary film is in the midst of an artistic and box- office renaissance. But Kaye isn't like most documentary directors; his film has no obvious agenda and he's not using it to make a political statement. ThinkFilm, which acquired Kaye's film after it premiered at last year's Toronto International Film Festival, is releasing "Lake of Fire" very slowly, premiering it in New York last week and in Los Angeles on Friday.

    Read more on SpiritDaily.com

    Jane

    October 5th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
  148. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    Just for the record- I am by NO MEANS ENDORSING this film…I just wonder if some of these pro-choice advocates every thought about to horror of it all- really…for both mom and the baby wounded within. Those graphic pictures cry out to me to do more to save these defenseless innocents. Are we so desensitized in this society that we don't feel that poor baby's pain & agony. The same holds true for the victims of the holocaust….I'm always so moved thinking of their pain, hunger and sense of injustice.

    Well, I get a pain so deep in my soul that often times I am choked up with grief. I silently pray to those infants who are surely resting in Heaven to look down upon us and help us change the hearts of those who both "advocate" abortion and "celebrate" the opening of clinics such as PP.

    October 5th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
  149. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Renee,
    Regardless of a unified group or not that doesn't change the fact that there is still a man there several times a week with the horrible signs. If you are a protestor and you line up with another protestor you are both unified for the same purpose. If you take the responsibility of putting the vigil on then your organization should take responsibility of all those standing with you. By your group standing with him I take it as your approval so you are both unified in my eyes and the drivers that have to drive thru that terrible way.

    LA just keep what you are doing watching over that little one in your belly. I stressed so much over our little one my wife was worried about me. So watch over you TWO!

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
  150. HR says:

    Hey, I just want to make sure my question in #121 doesn't get overlooked. Thanks!-HR

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
  151. Renee says:

    Leviticus Jackson~

    What exactly would you have us do?

    We can not take away that particular man's right to protest. We have no authority over him.

    There was one sign I felt was inappropriate at the Jericho march, and I asked the man to put it away, and he refused. What could I do?

    I could leave, but that would be abrogating my right to protest and what I feel is my responsibility to stand up for life.

    I sympathize with LA, but am powerless to do anything about it.

    Now, if PP wasn't in the neighborhood, there would be no concern here. Are you e-mailing PP and complaining to them, too? Because that is the root of the problem here.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
  152. Renee says:

    HR~

    I have heard remarks about this, too, and although I have spent a great deal of time praying at the clinic, I haven't seen any such thing.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
  153. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Renee,
    I think you are missing the point. As long as you stand shoulder to shoulder with those signs than you are guilty by assocation. When I drove home the day the clinic opened that man was there with maybe close to 10 protestors. I could care less if they don't know each other or not. If you don't want to be associated with that man then you shouldn't be standing shoulder to shoulder with him. To use a sporting analogy you are both on the same team. I used to be but after what I have seen over the last 2 months I can't stand alongside. I could never stand next to that photo and that is where your organization lost most of the people that live within walking distance of the clinic. Also I am not complaining to PP because Steve Trombley is not the one forcing this man to put up those signs. As I think Roger mentioned yesterday that he went to an Obama rally with a terrible photo. By going to the pro choice politicians and putting that in front of their house they are the ones that can overturn Roe V Wade. I can't, LA can't (nothing personal LA but I don't believe you are in Congress), you can't either. By putting those horrible signs up it accomplishes one thing. It turns the community against the protestors. I have dozens of stories on how my neighbors are fed up as am I.

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
  154. Renee says:

    So really, Leviticus Jackson, you think we all should leave and just leave the guy with the graphic abortion sign?

    I don't know what good that would do, but I can assure you that won't happen.

    I am, again, sorry this is so disturbing to you. I personally can not do anything about it.

    Were there graphic abortion pictures in your neighborhood before PP came to town?

    October 5th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
  155. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Renee,
    If you are willing to stand next to that person with the signs you have to take the heat or get out of the kitchen. I can't make it more clear than that. If you choose to stay which is your right than please be aware that you are no longer 10 people in 10 groups you are one group protesting the clinic. By you allowing him to join your group he therefore is a member of your group. It is no different than the red abortion truck man who picked up a "prayer warrior" on Sunday. If you are wearing a Pro Life jersey than you are all on the same team. You are wrong though you can do something about it. Elect pro choice officials as I mentioned before and you can leave town and make this area the nice place it used to be. My complex has more for sale signs than ever. I blame your group, our mayor and PP for that. I blame those signs though squarely on your groups back. Steve Trombley isn't walking around Oakhurst on a Jericho walk with them.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
  156. Renee says:

    "Steve Trombley is not the one forcing this man to put up those signs."

    I bet the man hold the sign would disagree. If PP wasn't there, I am certain the man with the graphic abortion sign wouldn't be there, either. I don't know the man, but I bet he feels he must get out the truth about what abortion is.

    Other pro life people aren't convicted to protest in the same way, but still feel convicted to stand up for life.

    I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explain why I am still going to go to the clinic and pray, despite the presence of the signs you find so upsetting.

    And I do disagree ~ PP organization knew this protesting would follow them, and therefore kept the project under wraps.

    I guess it doesn't do any good for the two of us to just keep saying the same things over and over, so I'll make this my last comment on this issue. I wish you peace, and all good.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
  157. Elizabeth says:

    Leviticus, If there was no abortion clinic in your neighborhood, there would be no signs, so why you blame the people who feel it in their very soul to stand up against evil I'm not so sure. We have every right to be there, and as long as PP is there, we aren't leaving, and people who don't support us because of those signs, didn't really support us in the first place. I don't like the signs because I don't like abortion. But that doesn't sway me to another side because I know what I feel in my heart. Obviously these so-called "supporters" really don't feel it that deeply in their soul or they would swallow whatever problems they have with the signs and stand up for the babies, so those signs wouldn't even have to exist.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
  158. HR says:

    >I have heard remarks about this, too, and although I have spent a great deal of time praying at the clinic, I haven't seen any such thing.

    Hi Renee, thanks for your reply!

    Is it possible someone who authors this site could confirm or deny? It seemed a little far fetched, but I've got a yellow sign in my front yard and I just want to be certain.

    Blessings!

    -HR

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
  159. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Renee,
    I wish you peace as well. The point I was trying to get across to you is that please don't challenge the people of this neighborhood by saying "Oh the man with the dead baby photos isn't with us". You are all one to us. If those photos were gone many in my complex would have joined the fight you are involved in and that is where your group made a tragic mistake in my opinion.

    Elizabeth,
    If I had a dime for every time I heard your explanation that if PP wasn't there we wouldn't be I would be a rich man and I could buy that clinic and shut it down. No, not shut it down to help your cause. Shut it down to help mine by getting peace and quiet back to this part of town. Your excuse doesn't make it right though. Elect a public official is who pro choice so Roe V Wade can be overturned. Sitting on Oakhurst praying with those horrible signs isn't going to do it. They don't build 7 million dollar building nowadays if they didn't think it was going to open. People in city govt had to know. Go find where Obama will speak next that would be a great spot as Roger found out earlier. Overturning Roe V Wade doesn't start in Aurora it starts in DC. If you can do that I would be impressed.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
  160. Elizabeth says:

    Leviticus, I do what I can raising a 2-year old and going to nursing school. If going out and praying in front of the site helps at least one girl keep her baby, I feel as though I have done a good thing. Your peace and quiet don't frankly matter compared to the baby I may have helped save. Sorry.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
  161. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Elizabeth,
    I wish you luck with your child and your studies. I hope you do well. One thing they teach in nursing school is to care for others. "Your peace and quiet don't frankly matter" is probably a comment you probably won't want to share with a professor when you are referring to a community you are protesting in. Basically you are saying you could care less about what you have done to our community. Good luck

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
  162. Elizabeth says:

    I haven't done anything to your community. Planned Parenthood did. You can blame a symptom all you want to, but the disease isn't protestors or those signs. It's planned parenthood. And I do care a lot, about all the innocent babies being murdered inside that building. If a little uncomfortability happens as a result of that, I am sorry, but there are bigger pictures to be thinking about.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
  163. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Elizabeth,
    Steve Trombley AND your organization share the blame in ruining this neighborhood. You two are joined at the hip. Again I know many nurses and wish you well and can tell you have a spirit about you. Just think about the grand picture first. Trombley isn't holding those signs and I know I know every reply I get is "If PP isn't there nor are we" but that is like 2 wrongs don't make a right. It is a tiring excuse for your cause.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
  164. Elizabet says:

    I suppose it is all a matter of perspective, Leviticus. Since you view what we are doing as wrong, then I suppose you are correct, but I don't happen to view it that way, so I don't think it is 2 wrong's don't make a right. And you are also correct in saying I do have a spirit about me, I got it from my mother, and my daughter is quite a feisty little girl herself. We have some good genes.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
  165. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Elizabeth

    I will end this lively debate by agreeing with you. You do have good genes.

    Have a good evening.

    October 5th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
  166. Paul says:

    HR,

    Re: 121 – What possible good could come from knowing the license plate number of a patient or member of their staff?

    Answer:

    I read recently about someone who photographs license plates at an abortion clinic in Granite City, IL. In 2006 Arkansas police were contacted by a teenage girl who claimed she was being repeatedly raped and had become pregnant by 41 year-old man. This child rapist took her to the notorious Hope [sic] Clinic for Women in Granite City where an abortionist killed her little child, despite her screaming protests.

    The police detective in Arkansas had heard about the pro-lifer who took photos of cars and license plates and got in touch with that person, thinking it might be a long-shot. Well, it turns out that they did indeed have a photo of the man's car and license plate. This led to the arrest of the man with charges of criminal sexual assault.

    Is that good enough reason?

    Here's a link to the story:
    http://tinyurl.com/32svyw

    The rapist later committed suicide before he was tried.
    That story is on WorldNetDaily.com under the title:
    "Suspect in child rape found dead"

    Adult men, old enough to be fathers of teenagers, often accompany young girls into abortion clinics to eliminate the children they have fathered through rape or incest.

    These are valid reasons for photographing cars and persons. By not reporting to authorities when an underage girl presents herself for an abortion, Planned Parenthood clinics consistently protect child predators.

    This has well-documented at:
    childpredators.com

    October 6th, 2007 at 2:30 am
  167. Roger says:

    Leviticus Jackson says:

    Renee,
    I think you are missing the point. As long as you stand shoulder to shoulder with those signs than you are guilty by assocation.

    Elizabeth,
    Steve Trombley AND your organization share the blame in ruining this neighborhood. You two are joined at the hip. Again I know many nurses and wish you well and can tell you have a spirit about you. Just think about the grand picture first. Trombley isn't holding those signs and I know I know every reply I get is "If PP isn't there nor are we" but that is like 2 wrongs don't make a right. It is a tiring excuse for your cause.

    Leviticus,

    By opposing us, Leviticus, YOU are supporting Planned Parenthood. Don't you think PP supporters read this BLOG and just LOVE to hear your complaints? I think YOU need to think about the bigger picture.

    I stand with the man who shows the pictures. I do not like the technique – the use of pictures – but I like abortion less. Why oppose those who work against abortion, even if you dislike their methods?

    Mark 9:38-41

    "'Teacher,' said John, 'we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.'

    'Do not stop him,' Jesus said. 'No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.'"

    This BLOG entry was about the Mayor and the Citizens of Aurora, about PP NOW being able to perform abortions in our community. Digressing into the use or non-use of graphic signs – the "how" of stopping abortion – is taking our focus away from the root cause.

    And YES, Leviticus, the root cause is PP coming to Aurora. No matter how you look at it, or how "tired" you are of hearing it. It's not an "excuse", it is cause-and-effect.

    What are YOU doing to stop abortion and Planned Parenthood?

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 6th, 2007 at 9:00 am
  168. Kathi says:

    Hey Leviticus Jackson,

    I bet I've lived in the neighborhood longer than you and It isn't the pro-life group hurting the neighborhood. *It's that big old 22,000 sq. foot abortion clinic.* The one nobody asked for. The one that lied, that knew it had to sneak in because nobody wanted it here. That is the problem, not the man with the sign. Your pro-abort group tried to get all the "Planned Parenthood Bad for Aurora" signs out of Oakhurst when it was clear that no one was putting up the Planned Parenthood signs. So don't even pretend that you speak for the neighborhood of Oakhurst. My property values are going to drop dramatically not because of the man with the sign, but because there is an abortion clinic in the neighborhood. And while were at it Leviticus, I think you are working for planned parenthood.

    This is for HR,

    I'd like to respond to your #121 question. Who cares!!
    Are you morally outraged if someone took pictures? I don't think I can count high enough, tell me how many high tech cameras are on the outside of the abortion clinic filming our nose hairs everytime we're praying? I'm sure Planned Parenthood would have it on film if anyone was taking pictures, but you probaly already know that since you work for them. I think you are silly.

    October 6th, 2007 at 10:25 am
  169. LA says:

    Roger-
    In your response to Leviticus you stated that if he opposes to a part of how the protestors are behaving, he is then supporting Planned Parenthood. That just doesn't make sense. I personally oppose to a man with a 5 ft sign on the corner obstructing my view and almost causing me to have an accident. Should that man be held liable if I would have been in an accident and charged with murder if my baby that I am carrying was killed? Just a thought.

    You also tell him that this is not the right blog to post about issues with the signs being used. I personally went on this blog after being so torn up and noticed it was the most recent blog at the time so I thought maybe someone would care enough to show some responsibility for the small children and drivers that are going through that area. You can protest without causing people to have accidents or very small children to have nightmares. You can have your opinion about small children being able to handle that but I will not show anything like that until I feel my child is ready for it. That is my job-I also screen what she may see on tv and other media. I understand it is the reality of it but a 2 1/2 yr old doesn't need to understand everything of what is going on in our society yet. I would like for her to be able to enjoy being a child.

    I really feel sorry for you that you have to blame everything back on Planned Parenthood. I support people protesting and standing up for what they believe in but at what cost? I would think that the people in charge of this organization would care that innocent people could be harmed from their actions. I appreciated the only response I got which was from Renee who just said she could not do anything about it. What about ask Eric Schiedler to speak to this man so someone is not involved in an accident?

    I find it amusing that anyone that disagrees with the full agenda of your protest is "working for Planned Parenthood" or is pro-abortion according to Kathi. I am just a mom who would like to bring my second child into the world safely.

    October 6th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
  170. Kathi says:

    LA, Please, are we a bit of a drama queen or what? There has never been an accident because of the sign. I don't really beleive much of your story. It seems much ado about nothing, which makes me think that you have a hidden agenda. Want to come clean? Or should I tell you of my near heart attack upon hearing that planned parenthood was coming to my neighborhood? Two can play this game.

    October 6th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
  171. LA says:

    Kathi-
    I think it is interesting that instead of really addressing issues, you choose to use sarcasm and accuse people that disagree with you with having a hidden agenda or not being pro-life. I have no hidden agenda. You can ask the pro-life supporters that were present yesterday morning as the woman to my left in the grass noticed me get upset as I pulled in front of another car. I was lucky and the other car saw me. That is great that there has not been an accident but there could have been due to this situation. How is my life and that of the child I am carrying not as important as the lives that you are fighting for? Call me whatever names you choose. Instead of name calling, why not address the issue completely. What about small children having to witness that 5 ft sign? Apparently, you are not going to have an open mind which was the only "agenda" I had!

    October 6th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
  172. Kathi says:

    LA, One more thing if you want to bring your second child into the world safely, stay away from the abortion clinic. The mortality rate for preborns there is the worst.

    October 6th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
  173. NM says:

    Kathi says:
    LA, Please, are we a bit of a drama queen or what? There has never been an accident because of the sign.

    Kathi: Although there has not been an accident due to the five-feet-high sign, this does not insure that it could never happen. Holders of these signs must begin to show courtesy to all the drivers' safety. We, the advocates of life, ought not have bullyish attitudes. Your demonstration of flipintly blowing off LA's concerns is immature. She deserves an apology from you in this regard.

    October 6th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
  174. Kathi says:

    Nm, Please don't hurt my feelings by calling me imature, bullish and flipint. I haven't called you names. You hurt my feelings, I was just useing my right to free speech. Now you be nice. You apologies first.

    October 6th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
  175. Renee says:

    Kathi,

    Please, this discussion has remained civli and repsectful. Let's not let it degenerate. Your tone is even putting me off, and I am on your side.

    October 6th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
  176. Kathi says:

    Ok Renee, Your right. I've said all I have to say. Let's just all be aware of who may or not be placeing blogs here. God Bless Us All!!

    October 6th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
  177. Elizabeth says:

    LA- I don't personally agree with a lot of your points but can sympathize with where you are coming from. I never had to view those signs when I was pregnant, but I'm sure it may have upset me more then it already does if I had been. I think they have the right to hold those signs, and I will not ask anyone to put them away, because just because they make people uncomfortable, they are still allowed to be there. My daughter who is almost 2 sees the signs of the babies and she smiles at them and says "baby." Because all she sees is a baby, she does not see the deformity or the blood on the baby, all she sees is a beautiful baby. Unfortunately, that baby was killed by abortion, and when she is old enough to understand I will explain to her that there are people that don't value babies lives as much as others and that she should stand up for the babies just as I am doing. I do however cover her eyes when the abortion mobile goes by. For I do not want her to petrified cause that has a lot more blood on it and other things. We all choose to look at how we raise our children differently. I think that I am doing a great thing for her by showing her young that it is important to stand up and fight for what you believe in, and you think you are doing a great thing for your daughter by shielding her from those pictures. We both do what we think is best, maybe neither one of us is wrong if what we are doing is out of love for our children. Just some food for thought.

    October 6th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
  178. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Kathi,
    You are a pro lifer and that is your God given right. Why on earth are you accusing a woman a woman of lying when she is pregnant? LA is carrying a child that you have taken it upon yourself to protect and you jump on her and accusing her of a phony story. That doesn't sound like any pro lifer I know. Just for your benefit I have lived her 14 years and I have earned the right to care about this community. By the way the first time I saw the red abortion truck I thruthfully lost the wheel of the car I was driving. I can't believe that is street legal and the idea of little kids seeing that just made me very angry. Oh yeah I don't work for PP. Your crew would have noticed one employee walking home everyday. I noticed today that the sign guy was by the entrance of the clinic most of the day which I can live with. Until my wife, child and I came back from church today and after 6pm he was back on Oakhurst. He looked dehydrated so I hope he is keeping up with fluids.

    Roger,
    I am not a politcian and I have no say so in Roe V Wade. I give you more credit than any pro lifer I have seen so far by going to the Obama rally you mentioned the other day. I have news for your group which I am sure will get me allot of love. Standing in front of the clinic and praying isn't going to stop abortion. Electing officials who are pro choice might actually accomplish something.

    October 6th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
  179. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    "Standing in front of the clinic and praying isn't going to stop abortion. Electing officials who are pro choice might actually accomplish something."

    Mr. Leviticus Jackson

    I'd like to just jump in here and say- yes, standing in front of the clinic & praying IS going to stop abortion. Any one of us who stood outside other abortion clinics can certainly attest to that! There are indeed women who change their minds because of the fruit of our prayers and because of our physical witness. We call those "saves" and we know plenty of Mom/Baby Teams who drove out of these very parking lots thankful for our presence. Keep reading beyond my posting b/c there are many stories to share and you are going to hear them.

    PP knows that this is indeed the case and that's exactly why they would not put a sidewalk next to the parking entrance. Believe me, they know all too well the power of our prayer and our presence and that is why they are doing all they can to shield their visitors from our loving & charitable witness.

    As for the politicians- Pope John Paul spoke often of the "Rule of Subsidiery"- which basically means people are "most affected" at the very personal level. So for instance, if you have a problem with your child at school you wouldn't seek aid from the President- you'd handle the problem 1st within the family and then within the school, then perhaps with a priest or pastor, then perhaps you need to go to a counselor or juvenille officials, etc…

    As with abortion…we have the power to change hearts 1st and foremost by how we live, how we raise our families, how we treat our friends, relatives & neighbors and then we move on to offer our prayers and personal presence at the very clinics where abortions are being held, then we add to our ministry by advocating City Council to enact Life Peace Zone Ordinaces etc.., then we continue on up the ladder supporting pro-life charities, politicians, etc…

    No Mr. Jackson- you do have this one wrong, we can indeed do small things with great love. …but it starts with here and now. As the familiar song goes- Let Peace begin with ME and let this be the moment Now!

    Blessings on this Holy Sunday evening,
    Jane

    October 6th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
  180. Paul says:

    "Leviticus" has said five times that we should vote for PRO-CHOICE politicians in order to overturn Roe v Wade.

    Quote:

    # 102 — October 4th, 2007 at 10:31 am
    I wish you well in your quest but this issue won't be solved in our children's children's lifetime until you all get your pro choice candidates elected.

    # 153 — October 5th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
    By going to the pro choice politicians and putting that in front of their house they are the ones that can overturn Roe V Wade.

    # 155 — October 5th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
    Elect pro choice officials as I mentioned before and you can leave town and make this area the nice place it used to be.

    # 159 — October 5th, 2007 at 10:13 pm :
    Elect a public official is who pro choice so Roe V Wade can be overturned.

    # 178 — October 6th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
    Electing officials who are pro choice might actually accomplish something.
    —————————————————

    Who are you kidding? It is the pro-choice politicians that have worked hard to keep abortion legal and unrestricted for the past 34+ years.

    Unless you made a mistake and meant pro-life politicians, what you keep repeating makes no sense, -that is, unless you are trying to influence us by repetition.

    It has been said that if you keep repeating a lie over and over, people will begin to believe it. That is exactly what has happened with those old worn-out slogans about abortion: "It's a woman's right to choose." "It's MY body." "Keep abortion safe, legal and rare." "If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one." "It's just a blob of tissue." "Products of conception." "It's not viable until the 24th week." "It's not sentient until the 24th week." "It's not a person." And on and on and on. These lies have been repeated ad nauseam by the pro-death abortion peddlers to the uninformed American public for so many years that many millions of people would agree with most if not all of them. This is the way the devil works. He twists truths to become half-truth and half-lie. A half-truth is not a truth, it is a whole lie. But we do know the truth about abortion: it is a gross and evil attack on a young, innocent, defense-less human life.

    Leviticus seems to be doing the same thing. He keeps saying the same thing over and over and over. Like the Energizer bunny, only more annoying.

    Leviticus, you have a Biblical name, taken from one of the books of the Jewish Law, or Torah, of the Old Testament. If one reads the book of Leviticus, it is found to be full of religious laws, with specific remedies and statues. Some of the laws pertain to sacrificing animals to atone for certain sins. Have you ever thought what it would look be like to see an animal be slaughtered, cut into pieces, with all the blood and entrails pouring out all over the place? Sounds sickening enough when it happens to an animal, doesn't it. Well imagine it happening to a human being, -a tiny baby in its mother's womb. Not only sickening, it is such an abomination, it is practically inconceivable to think of. Well guess what Leviticus, it IS happening right in your own back yard. What are YOU going to do about it???!!!

    The truth about abortion:
    WARNING EXTREME GRAPHIC VIDEO!
    http://abortionno.org/

    October 7th, 2007 at 12:34 am
  181. Paul2 says:

    Mr. Leviticus, what church were you and your wife returning from? Is it Christian. It is Jesus' words from Matthew 18:5 that brings us to congregate in prayer at abortion mills. He saud "And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me."

    Also, we each have our own path to God, but if you think Jesus was worth listening to then please read Matthew 18:6.

    I can agree that those pictures are gruesome and I symapthize with a parent who would want to shield their children from them. The problem here is that there are still people out there who perpetuate lies and would like to teach our children that abortion is o.k. They use the fact that it is legal to hide the fact that it is an abomination. PP went all the way to the supreme court fighting for the right to deliver babies feet first to the chest and then pucture its head with a scissors. Once the scissors is inside they open it wide and pull it out leavbing as lareg a hole as possible in skull so they can suck it's brains out with a vaccuum. The people displaying those graphic photos are just trying to stop the lies that perpetuate the slaughter of our children. Lets protect our children from this PP corporation. They sre the real danger and we need to do all we can to make sure our children never choose the path of death and eternity in the fires of hell.

    October 7th, 2007 at 1:45 am
  182. Leviticus Jackson says:

    Jane Celeste Fonner,
    I am talking about stopping abortion LEGALLY. Not thru protesting and intimidation. Get the laws passed and this cause of yours will be solved. If you don't do that then you will be standing in front of clinics til the day you die and don't you all want to see this come to and end? I would imagine after 50 days out there you all do?

    Paul,
    My apologies all of this talk about Obama being pro choice I had it on the brain. I meant elect PRO LIFE officials. I have read allot about Obama being the "golden boy" and just so outraged that I have only read one of your group has been to his speeches and that was Roger. As I mentioned to Jane if you get Roe V Wade overturned then your cause is victorious! Also I will ignore the comment where you called me annoying that doesn't sound very Christian now does it. Name calling is very childish. My wife and I would never have an abortion but we aren't going to be standing next to those horrible photos.

    Paul2
    Not sure if you and Paul are the same person but my religious beliefs are none of your concern. Your group is very open about photographing license plates and protesting at peoples homes so you will have to take my word for it that I went to a church.

    October 7th, 2007 at 7:49 am
  183. Jane Celeste Fonner says:

    "I am talking about stopping abortion LEGALLY. Not thru protesting and intimidation. Get the laws passed and this cause of yours will be solved. If you don't do that then you will be standing in front of clinics til the day you die and don't you all want to see this come to and end? I would imagine after 50 days out there you all do?"

    Mr. Leviticus- so we should simply do nothing until the "laws are changed"? This is how laws ARE changed, sir! 1st by bringing awareness to the issue- look at the result of our 55 day prayer vigil result! Conversations like these are going on everywhere and that is a start for sure. Too long this issue was "hidden" in a small clinic in Aurora and no one really cared but perhaps a "handful" considering the vast Aurora population! Now this fortress lands in a quintessential neighborhood for all to see. This may be the 1st you're seeing and hearing from protesters- but we've always been there and we are indeed making strides toward changing the laws! We ALL do more than just stand outside clinics- We are political activists with our time, with our money, and with our prayers, too! Don't discount what we all do "behind" the scenes.

    It took years and years to end slavery b/c of public outrage- years and years to end racial segregation b/c of public outrage etc…. our tactics are the same. Were it not for Emmit Till's mother INSISTING that her son's casket be open for public viewing and the pictures plastered on magazine covers- people would not have seen the utter disgust and injustice for this severely beaten black boy b/c he was simply black…were it not for her we may still be racially divided.

    Yes, we are here to enact the same response- but we as a Nation must wake up 1st from this nightmare of a law that sang it's bloody tune in 1973. Roe vs. Wade will be overturned as more and more come to realize that abortion is WRONG and when people like you and I do all we can to make people see the outrage. God in His Love & Mercy can move hearts and that is the FRUIT of All we do!

    We can't sit back and wait for the laws to change until we change some hearts!

    Amen- Jane

    October 7th, 2007 at 9:41 am
  184. Paul2 says:

    Mr Jackson,
    I am sorry you are unable to speak openly about your faith. beacause you wiew us as a threat to your well being. As Christians we are called to love and good works. We will make every effort to overturn Roe V Wade. We will also also make every effort possible effort to stop those like PP who would fight for the right I described in my previous e-mail. We all have our own individual ways of trying to stop this. Let's start by agreeing that those photos of abortion are offensive beacause the abortion they show us is offensive. We can all join togther to put an end to the evil.

    October 7th, 2007 at 9:48 am
  185. Paul2 says:

    To clarify my previous post. The right I was referring to that PP fought all the way to the supreme court to have is the right to perform that intrinsically evil procedure now as partial birth abortion. That would make a really grotesqe movie and I would never want to see that show either. Not only do I not want to see that show, but you can join us by finding your own way to keep that partial birth abortion show from playing itself out in real life inside the Aurora abortion fortress that was recently built.

    October 7th, 2007 at 9:54 am
  186. Leviticus Jackson says:

    I was out and about this afternoon and I saw your life chain protest. I was very pleased to see I didn't see on horrible photo on New York and Eola. Your message came across very well by the amount of people you had. On behalf of the community thank you for keeping that photo out of the community.

    October 7th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
  187. Elizabeth says:

    Leviticus, people dislike us regardless of the signs we hold up. I was there today participating in the life chain, and saw several middle fingers and a couple f* you's. So graphic signs or not, we still get the immature responses. But thank you for your kind remarks, it's always good to hear something positive.

    October 7th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
  188. Paul2 says:

    I have held those signs myself. My goal was never to offend. It was more a desperate plea for help to stop abortionists from performing infanticide on woman and children. If I thought it could help one women by keeping her from going through that dreadful procedure then I would hold the sign again. I was unable to attend the rally but I am glad they were able to make their point without those photos. They are huge photos and not evrybody needs to see them. I would like to personally thank you for expressing your concerns. May God grace us with a community where we never even have to think "abortion" again. Paul2

    October 7th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
  189. John says:

    Here is what I pray for…

    That everyone here who seems to be totally enfatuated w/ saving unborn babies lives are just as dedicated to saving all human lives…aka ending all wars, starvation, disease ect…

    No one life is more important than another…

    October 8th, 2007 at 7:47 am
  190. Renee says:

    John,

    That is called "a culture of life", which in fact is an excellent thing to pray for.

    You should know that your prayer is, in fact, something we all share. The people giving voice to the unborn also try to give a voice to the disabled, the homeless, the elderly, and any other group that is disenfranchised by our society that sees productivity as value.

    This group of people are the same ones that staff the soup kitchens, volunteer at Hesed House, assist refugee's that are effected by the wars around the world and run the local food bank.

    "Infatuated" might not be the right word. I would call it "committed". Committed to LIFE from conception to natural death, no matter how productive that life might or might not be.

    Keep praying, because we are fighting an uphill battle!

    October 8th, 2007 at 8:23 am
  191. Roger says:

    John says: "That everyone here who seems to be totally enfatuated w/ saving unborn babies lives are just as dedicated to saving all human lives…aka ending all wars, starvation, disease ect…
    No one life is more important than another…"

    John,

    Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Source – Share This
    in·fat·u·ate /v. ɪnˈfætʃuˌeɪt; adj., n. ɪnˈfætʃuɪt, -ˌeɪt/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[v. in-fach-oo-eyt; adj., n. in-fach-oo-it, -eyt] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, adjective, noun
    –verb (used with object) 1. to inspire or possess with a foolish or unreasoning passion, as of love.
    2. to affect with folly; make foolish or fatuous.
    –adjective 3. infatuated.
    –noun 4. a person who is infatuated.

    I hope you don't mean to imply that working to save the lives of the unborn is "foolish".

    I agree that all life is equally precious. But working on saving the lives of the most defenseless is paramount of importance.

    Why do people "freak" out when a Columbine event occurs? Because people know that our children should be protected. At least they can see that AFTER they are born. We are working to help people to see that this applies to all living children, both born and unborn.

    God Bless,
    Roger

    October 8th, 2007 at 8:32 am
  192. John says:

    Roger,

    "1. to inspire or possess with a foolish or unreasoning passion, as of love."

    Of course I did not mean foolish…I also do not have a dictionary by my side. However I do feel that some people (obviously I do not know you personally so please don't take it as a direct comment to you) do not exert as much effort to stopping all deaths and human suffering.

    It seems to me, at least on the surface level, that all Pro-Lifers are concerned with is the stopping of deaths of infants. It seems hypocritical to me that Pro-Life orginazations would not be protesting every single war, suicide, murder, any taking of human life ect…

    For some reason in the back of my mind I think about the only time a human life cannot survive on its own is when it is inside of the womb. It is part of the woman and if the woman dies so would the fetus/baby. It just seems different than when the baby is eating on its own…

    October 8th, 2007 at 8:54 am
  193. Renee says:

    John,

    There are many times a human can not survive on it's own. An infant, or small child needs to be cared for.

    A sick person can not survive on his own.

    An injured person can not survive oon his own.

    Mentally ill people need help to survive, as do homeless people and poor people.

    We really must not define "alive" as self-sufficiency, or there will be many others besides pre-born humans in danger of being exterminated.

    October 8th, 2007 at 10:43 am
  194. John says:

    Renee,

    I do not disagree w/ any points from your last post…and this is unfortunately what makes this topic such a difficult one…it seems to be that one has to be all or nothing in regards to Pro-Life/Pro-Choice…

    If there was only no rape or incest in the world then I would probalbly say away w/ abortion…I just couldn't stomach the fact of a woman having to have a child after being raped…

    October 8th, 2007 at 11:29 am
  195. Erin says:

    John–

    I appreciate your sympathy for women who have been through the awful experience of rape. I cannot imagine it, nor can I imagine how terrible it would be to find yourself pregnant not from a consensual situation, but because you were forced into sex. But, no matter how the pregnancy happened, nothing was the fault of the baby. The baby is innocent, and does not deserve a death sentence for the sins of his/her biological father.

    Like you, I feel enormous concern for women who find themselves in this situation, and I want to do anything I can to help that woman, but to say "abortion only for rape" is inconsistent with my views that life begins at conception. John, why are you pro-life? Is it because you believe that a pre-born child is a baby? That is why I am pro-life, and I cannot condone the killing of that baby for any reason.

    My heart aches for women who have to endure rape, but hopefully healing could come from knowing that good things, like a baby to bring joy to either a biological or adoption family, could come out of this terrible and cruel situation.

    Erin

    October 8th, 2007 at 11:55 am
  196. Roger says:

    John,

    John said: "I just couldn't stomach the fact of a woman having to have a child after being raped"

    Maybe you should listen to what women who have been in this situation have said.

    See http://www.afterabortion.info/news/WPSApetition.htm

    Every year, legislators, judges, and other policy makers discuss the problems of women who have become pregnant as a result of sexual assault. These discussions take place without ever first soliciting our input. In most cases, it is only in the context of highly divisive debates over abortion that we are discussed. In virtually every case, those people who claim to be defending our interests have never taken the time to actually listen to us to learn about our true circumstances, needs, and concerns.

    Just because it is inconceivable to you does not mean that it is the best thing for them.

    God Bless,
    Roger

    P.S. My wife and I know someone personally who has been in this situation and decided to have the baby. She has raised the child and it has been a blessing to her.

    October 8th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
  197. Renee says:

    John,

    This is when objective truth comes in handy. It is objectively true that a child is human and alive whether it is born or unborn.

    It is objectively true that killing a child is murder.

    It is objectively true that murder is wrong.

    There are many heart breaking situations that people are in that have no easy answers. All we can do it try to love and care for them the best way we know.

    Killing anyone is never an answer to a difficult problem. While is may allow us not to have to look at the problem, it doesn't solve the problem.

    Hiding a sad situation and loving people through a sad situation are two very different things. One may look neater on the outside but the other offers true loving care of all the humans involved.

    For instance, Mother Teresa loved the sick and dying in Calcutta that were basically treated as garbage. It would have been neater and more tidy to just stuff those unfortunates out of public view, or just kill them outright and dispose of them.

    It was the loving thing to do to care for them and love them until they either recovered, or died knowing they were loved.

    Truly loving your fellow human isn't always tidy, and the answers aren't always easy, but one thing that is objectively true is that inflicted death is never the answer.

    October 8th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
  198. Kathi says:

    Rodger,
    I just have to tell you that you do a fantastic job on this site educating people. Thanks for every thing you do. Your links are great.

    October 8th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
  199. Paul says:

    Leviticus,

    Thank you for correcting your previous references to be: "Pro-Life" instead of what you wrote: "pro-choice".

    I'm sorry if you took the "annoying" as a personal attack or insult. I was referring to the many, many posts you have made on this blog repeating your opinion on the use of graphic images of aborted babies. You have made your point crystal clear, and I believe that we have made our point(s) crystal clear as well.

    Eric Scheidler is the volunteer organizer of the ad hoc group known as Fox Valley Families Against Planned Parenthood or FVFAPP, and is the moderator of this website. Eric has already commented above about the FVFAPP's use of graphic images, see COMMENT # 96 above. He clearly states that FVFAPP has only used the graphic images once, on Aug. 25, 2007. Any other images you may have seen at "Ground Zero" in Aurora are not there under the direction or control of FVFAPP or Eric Scheidler.

    Okay, I hope that is understood. I don't think it's necessary to discuss this issue again and again. That's all I meant by using the word, "annoying".

    The real issue is the killing of innocent children, which is an inhumane attack on innocent, defenseless human beings. We are trying to shut down PP in Aurora based on their ignoring local ordinances. Overturning Roe v. Wade is another legal battle that we also will struggle for. But for now, we are working to shut down PP in Aurora because of there arrogant and gross violation of public laws. Thanks for reading, and God bless you and everyone.

    October 8th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
  200. Paul says:

    Clarification, Paul and Paul2 are NOT the same person.

    God love you.

    October 8th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
  201. Paul2 says:

    I would like to second post#200. Paul and Paul2 are not the same person. Thanks for pointing that out Paul. And thanks for your blogging, I enjoy reading your viewpoint.

    October 8th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
  202. Patricia says:

    Why is it so difficult for every adult with a conscious and even an ounce of morals to realize that brutally torturing and murdering an innocent human being dehumanizes every person involved with this act?

    We cry for all abused children whenever an incident comes to our attention.
    Is abortion not the worse form of child abuse on this earth?

    We are taught at a young age that respecting life from conception to natural death is the humane thing to do.

    Abortion reeks of evil and allows a female to take part in the murder of her own flesh and blood.

    And, this is what females call a choice and a right.

    October 8th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
  203. David says:

    post 119 by Kathi on 10/04/07 read in part:
    When I was at the abortion site today someone was telling me that a worker had seen huge garbage disposal equipment in this building, (to grind up the bones of the babies) this will become part of our drinking water.

    Eric, someone, please check this out! If it is true, it is quite possibly ANOTHER code violation by PP. HUMAN biological parts usually are handled as hazardous biowaste because of the possibility of spreading disease. Has PP obtained permits to dump this in the regular sewers? Are there code restrictions in force on the hospitals specifying handling procedures for human tissue?

    PP and their friends have so far been successful in denying the personhood of the unborn, but they cannot deny that embrionic tissue is human tissue. Nobody is going to line up to get an injection of cow or rat stem-cells.

    By the way pro-lifers. If your congressional representative will get behind breaking H.R. 618, The Right To Life Act of 2007, out of the judiciary committee and get it before the House for a vote, all those candidates who say they "are pro-life but … " will have a chance to demonstrate what they really believe. The bill seeks to establish that human life begins at fertilization.

    Science has shown us that after that point, barring getting killed, this life form will grow to birth, schooling, work, … the usual human stuff. The act will just confirm what ultrasound shows so well, that's a little child in there.

    We can all support the right of a woman to choose to terminate her pregnancy … so long as she does not needlessly endanger the life of the human child within her. If the baby can be safely removed from her then why not? As we've seen, the loving hearts are lined up waiting to receive and nurture.

    H.R. 618 will give legal standing to the personhood of the unborn. At least one of the justices of the Roe v Wade decision made it clear that a person's right to life overwhelmingly outweighs another person's right to privacy.

    We could make it happen.

    October 9th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
  204. Paul says:

    To Paul2,

    In re: Comment #201, Thanks for seconding my clarification, and for the compliment. I enjoy reading your posts as well. I also like your name too. (lol!)

    October 10th, 2007 at 12:22 am
  205. HR says:

    Hi Paul (#166), thanks for your thoughtful reply.

    Hi Kathi (#168),
    >but you probaly already know that since you work for them. I think you are silly.

    Huh? Read #121! "I'm pro-life. I'm pro-life in cases of rape and incest. I'm pro-life when the baby's health is severely compromised. Years ago I was jailed for sitting in front of clinics. I even have one of your signs in my front yard. I'm one of you." WHY WOULD YOU THINK I WORK FOR PP?

    Honestly Kathi, you really need to be a little more accepting of people who ask sincere questions.

    -HR

    October 11th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
  206. Paul says:

    HR,

    As far as what Kathi said, although I can't speak for her, it might be that in the emotion of the moment on this blog, she may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I think you were asking not just about the legality, but about the ethical or moral justification, from a Christian standpoint, of photographing the cars and people entering and exiting PP.

    I think we have ascertained that it is legal since it is in public place. Those doing so are not standing near the cars or the persons, so there is no harrassment going on.

    Therefore, given that we do indeed know what PP's modus operandi is: lying to women, to the public, to city governments, to the media, to their own supporters, and ESPECIALLY knowing that they consistently do not report suspected child sexual abuse, I think that we, as Christians, have a moral obligation to do all we can to try to protect the innocent from being taken advantage of: not only the babies who are being killed there, but also of the women and girls who may have been raped and abused, in particular underage girls who may have been sexually abused and have become pregnant by adult men.

    I referred (in Comment # 161 above) to an actual documented case of a child rapist who was arrested and charged as a result of the photographs taken of his car and vehicle tags at the infamous Hope Clinic in Granite City, Illinois.

    Here's the link to the story:
    http://tinyurl.com/32svyw

    October 11th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
  207. Paul says:

    TV news report from KSDK TV 5 in St. Louis of the 15 year-old Arkansas girl who was repeatedly raped by her step-father, Geoffrey Chesire, and then later driven by him to the Hope Clinic for Women in Granite City, IL to have her child aborted:

    http://www.ksdk.com/video/default.aspx?aid=42004&bw=

    This is the kind of atrocity that will be happening in Aurora unless a parental consent ordinance is passed and enforced, and unless Aurora residents put pressure on the police and authorities to hold Planned Parenthood accountable for reporting all cases of underage pregnancies = child sexual abuse.

    October 11th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
  208. Frank says:

    "I'm so glad that our voices, women's voices, have been heard!! The right choice has been made here…to offer reproductive health services to everyone. To have a safe place set up for everyone to get affordable health care that otherwise they would've never had. This is a major step for women's rights!! Thank you EVERYONE who supported Planned Parenthood and who's voice helped to open this clinic!!"

    Amen!

    October 13th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
  209. Renee says:

    As long as you're re-posting old comments, I'll chime in with a comment that followed the one you copied:

    There are quite a few women's voices that are not being heard, and that is from women like ME who disagree that encouraging women to be used as sexual objects is a good thing.

    The dignity and strength of women is undermined by using the gift of sex as recreation. Women suffer from this emotionally, spiritually, and are the ones to pay the largest price physically with STD's, infertility, increased risk of cancer and either unplanned pregnancy or abortion. This benefits men the most, by letting them continue to view women primarily as sexual objects, and then, should a child result, pressuring women to abort and save them from being real men.

    As I have been praying at the clinic these last 50 odd days, it has always been men screaming at me from their quickly passing cars to "keep it legal".

    Of course that is what men such as these would want, at a tremendous cost to the women they sleep with.

    Planned Parenthood simply facilitates recreational sex, then provides women with "protection" that regularly fails, then treats the failures. They make lots of dollars for this "service", at the expense of women and their wholeness.

    Planned Parenthood exploits women for money.

    Please, just do not include me in "women's voice have been heard" when lauding PP's entrance into my city. It makes me steaming mad.

    October 13th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
  210. Frank says:

    "It's NEVER okay to abort period…….."

    Don't be silly, of course it is. Sometimes it's the best option.

    October 13th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
  211. Renee says:

    Frank, don't be silly, of course it isn't. How's that line of reasoning working for you?

    October 13th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
  212. Renee says:

    Oh, darn, I was feeding the trolls again. My bad.

    October 13th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
  213. Frank says:

    "I live on the far East side of Aurora. I've started keeping a talley-sheet on my dashboard. Every time I see the red abortionmobile, I put a mark on the sheet. Each mark represents a dollar I will donate to Planned Parenthood at the end of October."

    What a wonderful idea!

    October 13th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
  214. Frank says:

    "Frank, don't be silly, of course it isn't. How's that line of reasoning working for you?"

    It's working perfectly, because it's true. Abortion is a great option for some pregnant women. No charge for me helping you become a little more educated. You're welcome. (Even though you've already been reduced to name calling).

    October 13th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
  215. Renee says:

    Oh, Frank, don't take it personally. I'm sure you are familiar with Internet Primer 101:

    Sometimes particularly popular message boards and websites will become targets of attacks by those who disagree with the basic premise of the board. Here's how it works. A contrarian posts a particularly inflammatory post with the goal of derailing the thread (this is called this trolling.) The other participants then become so focused on replying to the inflammatory post that the entire thread devolves into a messy name calling game. To diffuse a trolling attempt you only need ignore the troll. Eventually after unsuccessfully trying to gain attention they will simply leave.

    *Keep the discussion ON topic
    *Encourage debate not attacks
    **Do not feed the trolls**

    Seriously, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

    October 13th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
  216. Frank says:

    "Seriously, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

    Were you lying when you said you were going to ignore me? Looks like it.

    And I think I'll stay awhile. It's interesting here. In a train wreck sort of way.

    October 13th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
  217. HR says:

    Hi Paul, thanks for post #206.

    I understand how blog comments can be misunderstood. Many of us don’t know each other and all we have to go on is a sentence here and a sentence there. It’s easy to misunderstand and get all riled up. For this is an emotional issue! However, I think we must remember we are in a battle, but it is not against flesh and blood. Certainly as we strive toward justice, being active in the here an now, we will encounter many who very may well seem to be the opposition. However, everyone on "the other side," regardless of their role, is an individual who is loved by God. We need to love them too. "Hate the sin; love the sinner" is an incredibly difficult line to walk. I wonder why my question would have been less valid had I been from "the other side"? Wouldn’t it dignify a proper response even if I was a PP employee? (Which, Paul, you provided. Thanks.)

    Something that has helped my pro-life outlook is to try and see "the other side." I’ll admit, I’m far from unbias; for I will never understand why anyone would want to kill any their own baby. But I do understand why it might be frightening to be pregnant when you don’t want to be. For crying out loud, every time my wife has been pregnant, it has been the result of our deliberate attempt. Even so, this discovery has been scary every single time. I also understand why someone would be uncomfortable when the direction of their life unexpectedly changed. I’ve had that happen, never as a result of pregnancy, but it’s happened in other ways, and it’s always difficult. I also understand why it would give people the creeps if someone from "the other side" was documenting their movements. I’d be wigged out if I saw a Planned Parenthood van taking pictures of the folks coming into my church this morning. So I understand the fear I read about in the pro-abort blogs.

    Yesterday my family invited some friends over for diner. Although we had never sat down and talked through the issue I assumed one of our guests was from "the other side." "Do we want to take down our tallow yard sign?", I asked my wife. Surprisingly, (for she is usually the more non-confrontational one) said, "I don’t think we should be ashamed of what we believe." I admired her courage, for I am one who likes to be liked. The evening went great and after our company left my wife sheepishly said, "She commented about our sign…" Worried, I asked, "What did you say?" As a big grin came over her face, "I said Planned Parenthood has done…" Another woman from our party heard the commotion and joined in the conversation. Both left shocked with how PP has admittedly deceived the people of our city.

    As Eric said in another post, we need to be part of the community. We need to engage those around us. We don’t need to be angry with those who ask questions. We need to try and love those who God loves. We need to continue to speak the truth, in love.

    October 14th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
  218. HR says:

    Last post should read "our yellowyard sign" —Sorry

    October 14th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
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    November 3rd, 2007 at 4:45 am
  220. Families Against Planned Parenthood » Blog Archive » Please pray for Mayor Weisner today says:

    [...] Weisner has been no friend to us in our battle against Planned Parenthood, but perhaps for that reason he is all the more [...]

    September 10th, 2008 at 10:36 am
  221. Families Against Planned Parenthood » Blog Archive » Prayers and hope on a dark day says:

    [...] October 2, 2008, is the first anniversery of the day that Planned Parenthood Aurora first opened its doors. After months of protest, petitioning government, and constant prayer, it was a difficult day for [...]

    October 2nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
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