PP Opening is Delayed!!!
Posted by Roger on Monday, September 17th, 2007
Great news for all who support and value LIFE. Planned Parenthood's scheduled opening this Tuesday, Sept. 18, 2007 is NOT HAPPENING! A federal judge has scheduled a full hearing for this Thursday, in which he will hear arguements from both the City of Aurora and PP.
The Beacon reports (in the article below):
"Planned Parenthood President and CEO Steve Trombley counted the judge's ruling as a victory for Planned Parenthood saying that it is clear the judge took the issue seriously."
HA! Is this a victory for the so-called 13 scheduled patients? Not in PP's eyes. But he is right that it is a "victory" for those 13 supposedly-scheduled patients. They do not have to endure the services of PP.
And if 10% of those services that PP offers are "abortion services", the that's at least one baby who has more time to live, and one mother who has an opportunity to choose the right thing and say "YES" to LIFE.
See these news Articles:
Keep on Praying. And pray for those would-be patients of PP who will be missing their scheduled appointments.
High time to double our efforts, perhaps?
September 17th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
No matter what Steve Trombley says, every day the clinic is closed is a victory. Even is single day is worth all of our efforts. Still, we pray that it will be much more than just a single day.
September 17th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Hooyah!! But the job's not yet done…we'll need to re-double our prayers. One day at a time…
Is it legal to bless the PP site with Holy Water or will it just be reduced to ashes as soon as the water touches it?
See you all tonight for the prayers!
September 17th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
I literally shouted out praise when I heard the news earlier! Thanks to everyone for all their fasting and hard work. Keep it up as it is more important now than ever! This is just a small victory but there is a long way to go before those PP doors will never open. Don't forget to pray for all the lawyers and judges involved. God bless you all!
September 17th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Yeah! Thanks for your efforts. Hopefully, someone somewhere is documenting where and how Planned Parenthood falsifies city documents. I know we in Aurora are not an isolated case. Isn't it time Planned Parenthood be tried under RICO?
September 17th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
Ramir San Diego, that's a great idea to bless the building with holy water … when my husband and I were out there last, he buried a Miraculous Medal in their lawn … and one couldn't bury too many, that's for sure. So bring the holy water. They do, however, have cameras all over the place and may approach you. They did me when I went onto their property. I felt so rebellious. Ha!
September 17th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
My daughter Sarah and I thought about getting a spray bottle and spraying the area with holy water as we walked around it while we pray the Rosary. Wouldn't that be a sight~to see the place just collapse in the dust?!!!
September 17th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
PP/CA is having a gathering at the new Aurora mill tomorrow 9-18-07 between 5:00 and 7:00pm. They are calling it a meet and greet with food and beverage. They are also sending out emails again urging people to get on the list to speak at the city council meeting. So they cannot occupy the building so they decide to have a gathering there outside! Seems like they are doing this to rub it in the face of the city council as well as the Aurora residents. I guess I could go on their property between 5:00 and 7:00pm due to their public open invitation. Wonder if they will have good food. On second thought I will have to pass on their offer.
September 17th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
TV News reports featuring Eric Scheidler
that are fairly unbiased:
Fox News Chicago report:
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/pollQuestion
CBS 2 Chicago report:
http://cbs2chicago.com/westsuburbanbureau
I heard a WBBM NewsRadio 780 AM report last night
that only featured the voice of good ol' Stevie Tromblie. They make it sound like it's all about
poor PP not getting to open "on time".
Why is it all of a sudden a big story on WBBM Radio that PP doesn't get to open on Tuesday, Sept 18?
Isn't it a major news story that the people of Aurora and the Fox Valley, and all around the area have prayed for 40 days and nights, protested peacefully and petitioned the City Council civily? Isn't that a major story?
If it's just a regular health clinic, and abortion is just about getting rid of a blob of tissue, then what's the big deal with a short delay in opening?
September 17th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Sue, that's an AWESOME idea … just perfect … and falling to dust, yes, it would be great. I could add a frame onto our video … have you seen the vid yet? Click on the link under my name to get there. And after you've viewed, you can take the video to 2:33 (and stop it there) by sliding the bar at the bottom of vid. In that frame you will see two children. Look at the shadow on the little girl's sign. What do you see? We over here at Fighting Irish Thomas are calling him Joshua, baby warrior. What do you think? (We've had different takes on what this shadow is.)
And Tim you are too funny. They might have a "special" plate for you. Yes, I think I'd skip the food part. Ha! And that's cool they are forced outside at their mussy-lawned abortuary. Do you know they asked me to get off their property Saturday because they were "trying to grow grass?" Double Ha!
September 18th, 2007 at 2:24 am
>Do you know they asked me to get off their property Saturday because they were “trying to grow grass?” Double Ha!
Don't kill the grass…because killing is…look, just get off the grass OK?
HA!
September 18th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Now will you people get out of my neighborhood? You're an embarrassment and a nuisance.
Want more people on your side? Maybe try not being such an eye-sore.
Taking legal action is fine and seems to be working for you but your "vigil" is hurting our fine town and bringing an unfavorable stigma to the name "Aurora".
September 18th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Jason,
Yes, we would really like to get out of your neighborhood. As soon as PP is forever closed, we will no longer be there to speak up for the unborn.
I appoligize for being an eye-sore. I do hope your not referring to the people, but the "stuff" of the prayer vigil and protests. The people I've met during this process are beautiful people to behold. Maybe you can introduce yourself to some of them some time and get to know them and why they are there. At least we are not as much of an "eye-sore" as looking at an aborted baby, are we? But who wants to look at that, maybe we should just look away and pretend it's not really going to happen there.
Lastly, I completely agree that this is bringing "an unfavorable stigma to the name 'Aurora'". PP has got to go, or we will have a huge stigma of death. The "City Second to None" will be second to none in the death of the innocent unborn. The "City of Lights" will the City of Darkness.
Finally (ok I did say "Lastly" in the previous paragraph, so my paragraph structure is off), the opposition to PP is not just about abortion, although that's a huge factor. It's about PP's influence on our community. They bring "values" that we do not agree with, that MOST Americans do not agree with.
They are NOT about "planning" a pregnancy, but about planning how to get rid of a pregnancy. If they are so pro-woman, pro-"planned pregnancy", why is it that they offer NO services to a pregnant woman wanting to carry her baby? No, they are NOT a "full service" women's health center, only the services that lead to the biggest financial gain. Show me the money!
September 18th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Speaking of this gathering PP is having this evening, please remember that this might be a ploy. PP may be looking to incite the PL-ers, because if even one small act of violence is committed against them, that can help sway the judge. So EVERYONE, be on your best behavior. They have cameras EVERYWHERE at PP. Anything you do that can be construed as violent or damaging to their property or whatever they will certainly use it against you in court. So I hope there will be some pro-life staffers there so they can help keep order. (I know PL-ers are usually calm, but that's partly because they haven't had much opposition yet in Aurora!) I'm sure this has already been thought of, but I just had to post.
September 18th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Cool article for all you believers out there! Click on the link under my name …
September 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Jason -
This proposed PP facility is in MY neighborhood. And I do not want it here. So no, I will not get out of "your" neighborhood now.
What is more embarassing to Aurora is that we may be home to this business. (I do like to keep pointing out that PP is a business above all else - though they would like you to think otherwise.)
The protesters do not stop traffic, nor do they incite violence. They do not degrade human life or cater to immoral acts against others. It is a peaceful demonstration and prayerful vigil. You should count yourself lucky that there are so many people in your community who care so deeply about others.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Net, I did see your vid last night and when I stopped it on the two kids, I almost fell off my chair. I said "That's a baby!!" How AWESOME is that?!! I can't get to all of the events, but Sarah & I pray at the site on Tuesdays from 10am-12pm. I really enjoy all of the video postings of the various activities. Thanks
September 18th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Here is something that worries me. Someone at the Monday PP vs Aurora court case said that the Aurora attorney acted as if he wanted PP to win. The Judge had to actually coach the attorney as to what he should be doing. When the Judge offered to give the City seven days to provide more evidence he was requesting, the Aurora attorney said - no thanks, 24 hours is enough time. The Judge was very suprised and asked him again. Is the City intentionally hoping that PP wins so they can say - look the courts have ruled and there is nothing we can do now? We need to make sure the City of Aurora is agressively persuing these court cases. Did anyone else get the same impression on Monday.
September 18th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Sue, thanks a lot for your post … I was thinking, are we the only ones to see this? Tom wrote an article today with the picture included. (Link under name.) Dennis, I'm praying so much in regard to this court case. Very, very much. I am doing some fasting as well. And we are offering up our daily Eucharist for the elimination of Planned Parenthood in Aurora. And then there are our rosaries, too. One can't pray too much! The heavens must be getting stormed. Everyone, keep it up! Jason, you are no fun at all. An eyesore? Being around those folks at the vigil is as close to heaven as you're gonna get on this earth. (Outside of sitting in front of the Eucharist that is.)
September 18th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
@Roger
No, I'm referring to the people AND your props/signs as being an eye-sore.
Are you aware that abortion is legal in Illinois? Do you believe that heaping red tape and nuisance on PP is going to change the law?
You say that they are trying to make a profit (so are all doctors by the way - just take a look at the nice cars in the doctors' parking lot at any hospital) but you say that most Americans don't agree with their values. How could such a company stay afloat? If they rely on making money but most people wouldn't give it to them, how do they stay out of bankruptcy court (especially considering all of their legal defense fees)? Obviously your not wrong about them needing to make a profit. Could you be wrong about the "most Americans" part? I doubt you'll seriously consider an opinion so contrary to your own.
PP DOES offer services to women planning to carry their babies to term. They also offer adoption services, contraceptive services and sexual health services. Again, this is probably a fact that you'll chose to deny because it is directly opposed to your own agenda.
My biggest question is this: Why don't you try to work WITH PP to find a solution rather than working AGAINST them. As long as abortion is legal in Illinois (another point that supports the fact that "most Americans" may not share your views) you're doing nothing more than creating delays, burning through tax-payer dollars and teaching PP exactly what plan of action to take next time (in terms of permits, etc.).
No one is pro-abortion. Have you ever considered that? No pro-choice person or organization wants to see more abortions. Why not focus on the shared goals rather than focusing of the differences? Have you spoken to (this particular) PP about them offering referrals to religious organizations such as your own for counseling?
If you refuse to work WITH them, why not open your own facility to provide alternatives directly across the street (there are many spaces available on both the NE and NW corners)? You have just as much of a right to open a clinic to provide the services and counseling that you believe that they are lacking in. If that's what "most Americans" want, you would be wildly successful and PP would go belly-up.
It's my belief that abortions will happen. The have been happening since before written history. I don't want any woman to ever have to have one but I prefer that when they do, they have clean, regulated facilities to go to rather than some back-alley office or some "home remedy".
Why not provide a better alternative rather than trying to eliminate the only existing alternative?
@M
Yes PP is a business, that's obvious. Does that make them evil? You'll be hard pressed to interact with any organization that couldn't be considered a business. Do they have employees? Do they collect money? Do they pay their employees?
September 19th, 2007 at 5:52 am
Jason, I would like to give my view on a couple things you addressed to Roger. An abortion doctor does have the right, as you say, to make money ending pregnancies, as in America, abortion is legal. Part of their work's day is spent ending pregnancies from women who find themselves in troubling situations. (She doesn't want to be pregnant; she's ill, she's going through a messy divorce, her boyfriend left her, she's poor, she's still in high school/college, she is being pressured from family, or maybe she's been raped.) When the doctor ends her pregnancy, the fetus can no longer continue to grow. Its life as it knows it has been abruptly halted. How can abortion equate to anything but taking this life away? And then how can that be called anything but killing? That is why the pro-life folks in Aurora are working so very hard to rid themselves of the top provider of abortions in America. It's because they committ murder. That's a very dark cloud to be hanging over any city. (Yes, Planned Parenthood does pap smears, etc., but even if Planned Parenthood was giving away millions of dollars to the poor and famished, yet still performed one abortion a day, the pro-life crowd would be protesting. You see, all the good PP does is wiped away in a "heartbeat.") And it's not just the baby whose life has been smashed. The mother, the one who is so sad, upset, devastated, angry, too young to understand, and paranoid about her pregnancy, oftentimes does not feel relief (as PP tells you you will) upon receiving an abortion. Possibly she thinks she does. But as time goes on, something else happens. The realization of what she has actually done by receiving an abortion comes smashing down on her too. It's the most painful realization that can occur and these women suffer tremendously. Yes, there are some that will not deal with their abortions, saying everything is fine. They are left to be harsh, bitter, angry, lonely, and very very sad. They can continue to live on that way for even a lifetime. It's no way to live. Planned Parenthood does not discuss adoption. Planned Parenthood performs a monstrous disservice to women. Planned Parenthood kills babies. They killed mine. (And, yes, Planned Parenthood IS evil.) I invite you to join the right fight!
September 19th, 2007 at 9:29 am
I saw at least two full-page ads in yesterday's Beacon-News against Planned Parenthood. I'm pro-life (in favor of empowering & encouraging troubled women to give birth to their babies), and I couldn't help wondering– those ads can't be cheap; and how much baby food, diapers, and baby clothes could have been bought instead of spending money on huge ads?
Also, in the ads it states that Planned Parenthood is "anti-child" because of their statement that "children are noisy, smelly, and expensive". That's not "anti-child", that's TRUTH! Children are indeed noisy, smelly, & expensive. They are also a tremendous source of joy, love, and fulfillment (I should know; I've raised some). But to quote a truthful statement as proof that PP is "anti-child" can be counter-productive as it turns reasonable people away from considering the argument that this facility is wrong for our community.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Annie … what part of "children are noisy, smelly, and expensive" ISN'T negative? And to be negative is to be "anti." The ads are great! They're effective tools to grab attention and educate. All folks are invited to purchase "baby food, diapers, and baby clothes" for those in need. That's always welcome. Which is better? Both are necessary. (And, Annie, Planned Parenthood kills children … that's "anti-child.") What "reasonable" people are being turned away by this proclamation?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:29 am
@Net
I'm glad that you agree that doctors legally have the right to preform abortions.
If I wanted the consumption of alcohol banned in the US, would it make sense for me to stand outside of a bar and protest? No, because the bar does not make the laws. Just as in prohibition times, if you close all of the bars, people will continue to drink. If you close all of the licensed clinics, people will still continue to seek out abortion services. You are simply taking away the safe option. Do you think you can stop every female in the world from stopping their pregnancies?
Perhaps you should start with China where female-child abortions are rampant.
I understand the definition of "pro-life". I'm not here to debate morality or try and change your values. Just as I hope you'll understand if you won't be changing mine. I'm saying that there are better options to accomplish your goals, there are other view points in the world (which an intelligent person should consider) and if a girl dies during a self-abortion attempt because a licensed physician was not able to perform it, who's blood is her hands on?
Planned Parenthood killed your babies? What?
1. Men can't have babies.
2. PP does not sneak into the beds of unsuspecting women and abort their babies when they're not looking.
It sounds like you may have some unresolved issues with a girlfriend?
Your "invitation to join the fight" just reinforces the fact that you are ignorant (do I really sound like I'm on the fence here?) and confrontational. I have to wonder how long it will be until one of you goes "Eric Rudolph" again.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Saying "Planned Parenthood kills babies" is about as comprehensive and accurate as saying "Priests molest children".
September 19th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Jason … I am a woman, not a man.
And as far as your most recent post, some priests (overcome by Satan) do indeed molest children … but ALL Planned Parenthoods kill babies.
And my own brother talks just like you write Jason … (you don't seem like a bad guy at all) and he indeed is on the fence, more so than he'd ever admit to. And even if YOU'RE not, I always invite people over to the light. ALWAYS!
September 19th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
P.S. to Jason … have you ever voiced your opinion on Jill Stanek's site? They are quite knowledgable about pro-life issues yet have MANY pro-choice people that comment there. And maybe they wouldn't be quite as "ignorant" as I am.
http://www.jillstanek.com
September 19th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
And Jason, after reading your posts again, I see that one of your main arguments for legalalized abortion is so that women do not die via self-induced abortions. The only thing sadder than seeing a photograph of an aborted fetus/baby is seeing a photograph of a woman who has died after attempting an abortion on herself … because that is two people who have died instead of one. Yes, you are correct in saying this would happen again if abortion was illegal. But not to the degree that abortion occurs in America daily. Only the very desperate/selfish/ill person would attempt an abortion on themselves. (That is my opinion only.) That is what is so bad about abortion in America … it's incredibly easy to come by. I think the larger percentage of women would go another route, either adoption or even keeping the child herself. I have no numbers here Jason. But when America tells their women it's fine to abort, it sends a very confusing message. When they take men into horrid countries to fight deadly battles, this is confusing too. There is a peace that is in heaven that is certainly partially obtainable on this earth … and the best way to achieve it is to stop the killing. That would surely start with the biggest culprit, abortion.
To quote Blessed Teresa of Calcutta … "The western world will never know peace as long as they continue to allow their mothers to kill their own young." This makes total sense to me. Does it mean anything to you?
We are talking ONLY nine months Jason. It's a very small workload for such a great gift (even if it's for someone else.)
September 19th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Annie,
There was a large baby shower in the Dominick's parking lot Saturday. Don't think for a minute the very same people that helped pay for those adds aren't also buying lots of diapers and baby food and clothing for the moms of the babies who need them.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Hey Net–
Sometimes the truth is "negative": "Children are noisy, smelly, and expensive"–what part of that statement isn't true?? If you've raised children, as I have, you would know that they are indeed noisy, smelly, and expensive (and also loving, fulfilling and rewarding: like so many of life's blessings, the "truth" is a mixture of joy and challenge). A statement of fact should not be twisted into calling an organization "anti-child". Many thinking people who are undecided about supporting pro-life activities are turned off by such tactics.
And for the record, I am a proud supporter of The Nurturing Network, a pro-life organization that provides practical help to enable young women in crisis pregnancy situations to choose life for their babies.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Jason,
Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's moral. For example, slavery, women not having the right to vote and hold property, segregation, etc. And there were always people in the culture at the time that thought these injustices were just fine. They were wrong.
Just as justice has been met in those cases, we are working towards justice for the women and babies exploited by abortion. As PP is the largest provider of abortion, and they are attempting to set up the largest clinic in the U.S. in our town, we have an obligation to respond. And we will.
Untill this injustice is corrected, you can expect protests, prayer vigils, marches, adds in the paper, joint statements by clergy, and other legal and peacful activities to continue.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
@Net
My apologies, the "fightingirishthomas.net" address appeared to be written by a man so I assumed.
Not all PP conduct abortions. The one on North Aurora, a few miles away, does not.
Another difference in the analogy being that child molestation (Satanic or not) is illegal and abortion is not.
Have you ever considered moving away to somewhere where abortion is illegal? Illinois has collectively decide that abortion is ok here. You might be happier elsewhere. Only 5% of Americans believe that abortion should never be permitted (Jan '06 poll) whereas Poland is 48%.
According to abortionno.org approx. 26 million legal abortions occur yearly and approx. 20 million occur in locations where abortion is illegal. It seems as if there is very little difference to women wether or not it's legal. It's going to happen as it has been for over 2000 years.
As far as Jill Stanek, as I said, my intention has not been to argue abortion but to try to encourage your group to seek out a more productive path. Still no one has addressed my suggestions of working WITH PP or constructing your own facility.
The quote "The western world will never know peace as long as they continue to allow their mothers to kill their own young.” Means little to me because I don't consider a fetus, only a few weeks old, my "young". Again though, not here to argue abortion.
@Renee
Just because a minority of Americans believe that it's immoral does not make it so. Your examples of "slavery, women not having the right to vote and hold property, segregation" are not quite accurate in the fact that none of them refer to voluntary services, paid for by the principle. These were all injustices opposed by external forces.
The Amish believe that the use of technology is wrong and the Islamic believe that consumption of alcohol and pork is wrong. Does that make it right for the whole world? Should they try and impose their morality on everyone else?
September 19th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
"Have you ever considered moving away to somewhere where abortion is illegal?" is a typical thing to say. (I'll throw it back at you and say, have you ever thought of not posting on a pro-life site because your ideas are not conducive to our beliefs?) - Anyway, there are few countries left that disallow abortion. This time period we are in is being referred to appropriately as the "Culture of Death" almost across the globe. This is a nation that allows its mothers to kill their infants as Mother Teresa has said. You do not see a 3-day fetus as a human being? Possibly you are not looking hard enough. At what EXACT point does this non-human become a human? Can you pinpoint the exact hour, minute, second? And in regard to putting up a place next to PP to save babies, not dispose of them, of course that's been done. There are costs involved as you can imagine. It's not always doable is my opinion. And, yes, there are more people than not that are self-centered and do not want to be tied down with an unwanted pregnancy so abortion is legal. That doesn't mean there are not significant numbers of people who know the truth about abortion and wish to change the laws. It's a fight Jason. A fight that pro-life will eventually win, because even though the devil is very powerful, he can't outdo the Lord. (And Fighting Irish Thomas is my husband, Jason. I didn't mean to confuse.)
September 19th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
@Jason: "Just because a minority of Americans believe that it’s immoral does not make it so. Your examples of “slavery, women not having the right to vote and hold property, segregation” are not quite accurate in the fact that none of them refer to voluntary services, paid for by the principle. These were all injustices opposed by external forces.
The Amish believe that the use of technology is wrong and the Islamic believe that consumption of alcohol and pork is wrong. Does that make it right for the whole world? Should they try and impose their morality on everyone else?"
these cases cannot be compared with LIFE ~ that is way off base in your thinking ~ everyone of us is alive because our mothers gave birth to us. Just think of how many future leaders and wonderful loving people have been destroyed in their mothers' wombs before having a chance to LIVE. Truth is Truth you cannot skew it to your own truth. The truth is that abortion is killing a human being. We all have a right to LIFE and we are speaking for those who can't speak for themselves. God be with you & peace! ~ Diane
September 19th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Annie … when you're downing your favorite beverage and it is at the half-way point, do you say "my drink is half empty," or do you say "my drink is half full?" A pessimistic (and anti) view of children would be to say they are "noisy, smelly, and expensive." It doesn't do a whole lot of good for their self-esteem either. I personally like the "loving, fulfilling and rewarding" part you stated. My husband and I have four children. Like you, I know kids too. They are a gift from God and until people see that Planned Parenthood is destroying that gift, they won't be ready to support the removal of abortion entirely. I understand what you are saying by "Many thinking people who are undecided about supporting pro-life activities are turned off by such tactics," but it's always good for people to know off the bat the truth before getting involved in any type of movement and Planned Parenthood who ends pregnancies for troubled/anxious/hurt/attacked women ARE "anti-child." And I might add they are "anti-woman" too.
It's great you are part of The Nurturing Network, Annie. Possibly you haven't been close enough to abortion to want to tell it like it is. That is good!
September 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Jason,
The idea of a human being the property of another and not afforded their own rights certainly applies to slavery, and the status of women at one time in this country, as well as to unborn children. Your "opinion" isn't the problem. My "opinion" doesn't matter either. The fact is that the socially powerful often deprive the weak of their rights. It has happened before, it is still happening, and those concerned with more than their own self interests have alway fought these injustices. We will continue this fight.
Don't like it? Tell the mayor to get PP out of your neighborhood.
Just as abortion is legal, so is protesting. Again, if you don't want it in your neighborhood, tell the mayor to get PP out.
September 19th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
@Net
"have you ever thought of not posting on a pro-life site because your ideas are not conducive to our beliefs?" As I keep saying, I'm not here to debate abortion but instead to find common ground and better solutions because neither side of the debate is "pro-abortion" and neither side benefits from bickering.
"This is a nation that allows its mothers to kill their infants" but the numbers speak to the fact that whether it's allowed or not, it will continue.
If you believe that a human is a human from the point of conception do you also believe St Thomas - "Therefore the ejaculation of sperm must be so ordained that there may follow from it both the begetting and the upbringing of offspring. It is clear from this that all ejaculation of sperm, produced in such a way that begetting cannot follow from it, is contrary to man's good. And if this is done deliberately, it is necessarily a sin"? It seems that life begins even before conception? Should US law regulate all ejaculation?
You say that "there are more people than not that are self-centered and do not want to be tied down with an unwanted pregnancy" which puts you in the minority. Democracy is based on the needs and wants of the majority.
As I stated, there are an average of 46 million abortions per year worldwide (26 legal, 20 illegal). I'll be the first to admit that this is a staggering and unfortunate statistic. But the "20 million illegal" number demonstrates that laws do not stop abortions. Even if you got your wish and there were no abortions worldwide, what then? 46 million unwanted babies? That's the approximate population of California and Illinois every year. No adoption infrastructure could support that amount of children not to mention the fact that no economy could support it and neither can the Earth. We would overpopulate in a matter of decades.
Ask yourself what happens when all abortions are illegal.
Which brings me back to my point. What can both sides find in common. Do you support birth control? If so, in what ways?
If abortion is rampant and has been so for over 2000 years, isn't it more productive to address the root of the problem - unwanted pregnancy?
September 19th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Well, Jason, I don't think anything I could say would be in any way enlightening. There is NO common ground between pro-life and pro-(leave open the avenue for)abortion. They are like oil and water. But thank you for your comments. I do appreciate reading how pro-choice people come to their conclusions.
September 19th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Are any of you going to the Dirksen Building tomorrow for the court case?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
well said jason. lets all commit to putting our energy towards something that would actually reduce the number of abortions. i have never had an unplanned pregnancy but then again, i was educated about how to prevent it and had ready access to birth control - things the majority of women seeking abortions did not have, illinois ranks 46th in access to contraceptives. most ppl on the pro-choice side feel strongly about working towards this goal and i would hope ppl on the pro-life side feel the same, so @net, how can you say there is no common ground??
September 21st, 2007 at 8:59 pm
Jason,
I believe listening to others and finding common ground is essential to enabling the "best" and most educated decisions to all sides.
Lets start by trying to find some some common ground. Please read the short scenario below and let me know if you believe the "procedure" should be allowed.
Recently Planned Parenthood went to the Supreme Court fighting to allow doctors to perform a procedure known as partial-birth abortion. The clinical description is to delievr babies feet first and outside the woman as far as the chest. Next slide a sccissors up the biabies spine until you feel the head. Grasp the head firmly while puncturing it with a scissors. Once the scissors is inside the head they open it fully to create as large a hole as possible when they pull the scirris out of the babies skull. Next stick a vaccuum in the babies head and suck it's brains out.
Can we start with thecommon ground that begin by agreeing the above service should not be offered at Planned Parenthood, or anywhere else in the US.
Thoughtfully yours,
Paul2
September 22nd, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Oh, and BTW Jason, since you had asked I should answer your questions and tell you a little about myself.
1)I do not use birth control.
2)Philosophically I believe ejaculation for any purpose other than procreation is equal to masturbation wether by yourself or with the help of a partner. But legally it need not be regulated since there is no life until conception.
Paul
September 22nd, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Why doesn't Planned Parenthood reach out to the community? Why don't they talk with the VA and other women's crisis centers? Oh, that's right…they are competition. They have no clue about our community and didn't want to. Why do they not have an open house for the area clergy and opposition and offer to educate them? Oh, that's right….they don't care.
They don't care about the women either, only their power to generate revenue and they only care about the law as much as it leans to their business.
It's a business….they are after money and they are up against a moral, ethical tidal wave. They chose to ignore it, this is what ensues.
Oh, by the way pro choice people…the baby is NOT the problem, being irresponsible and unaccountable for your behavior is. How do we address that? Well, justifying it is not the first step. Validating it? No…not that either. Acknowledge that it's wrong and start there.
September 25th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Pray
In His power, we PRAY
PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS!
PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS!
PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS! PRAISE JESUS!
GOOD JOB, PRO-LIFE!!!!!!
GOOD JOB AURORA!!!
Now Stay Strong in the Lord and in the power of HIS might and shut that factory of hell DOWN.
Continue in prayer until every paper is signed, every 't' is crossed and every 'i' is dotted.
There will be NO murder processing plant WHATSOEVER in the town of Aurora IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST
SATAN WE RESIST YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS, NOW FLEE!!
Whatever we loose on earth we loose in heaven and whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven, whenever 2 agree on anything IT SHALL be done, THEREFORE….
in THIS authority - the Word of the MOST High God- WE DECLARE A BLOODLINE AROUND AURORA IN JESUS NAME! WE DECLARE THAT SATAN IS BOUND FROM ALL ACTIVITY PERTAINING TO THE ABORTION FACTORY OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD IN THE CITY OF AURORA IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
WE BIND ALL OF THE LIES OF THE DEVIL AND HIS COHORTS AND WE BIND THE SPIRIT OF DECEPTION, THE SPIRIT OF MURDER, GREED, LUST AND HATRED IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF THE LIVING CHRIST!
WE PRAY FOR A SPIRIT OF REPENTANCE TO REST LIKE LEAD ON THE SHOULDERS AND HEARTS OF STEVE TROMBLEY AND EVERY SINGLE DOCTOR, STAFF MEMBER, ASSISTANT, ADMINISTRATOR, SERVICE PROVIDER AND ADVOCATE AT PLANNED PARENTING IN JESUS NAME!
WE BIND THE SPIRIT OF LUST IN THE WORLD, WE BIND THE SPIRIT OF PORNOGRAPHY AND THE SPIRIT OF DESTRUCTION IN JESUS NAME AND WE LOOSE THE SPIRIT OF TEMPERANCE, SELF-CONTROL, THE SPIRIT OF PURITY AND HOLINESS AND THE SPIRIT OF RESTORATION IN JESUS NAME OVER FAMILIES, INDIVIDUALS AND ALL SITUATIONS AND WE TAKE BACK WHAT THE DEVIL HAS STOLEN BECAUSE WE WILL NOT, NOT, NOT TOLERATE HIS LIES ANYMORE!!!
WE LOOSE THE ANGELIC HEAVENLY FORCES AND DECLARE WAR AGAINST THE HOST OF HELL AND WE LOOSE AGAPE LOVE, PEACE, TRUTH, LIFE, HONESTY, COMPASSION, INTEGRITY, TENDERHEARTEDNESS, REPENTANCE, GIVING AND SOWING, JOY AND PRAISE! Oh YES, WE RELEASE THE SPIRIT OF PRAISES UNTO THE MOST HIGH GOD, JUST AS JUDAH PRAISED BEFORE BATTLE, WE PRAISE AND GIVE ALL THE GLORY TO THE LORD AND GIVE THANKS THAT THE WILL OF THE LORD IS DONE!
WE DECLARE LIGHT, LIGHT, LIGHT OVER AURORA IN THE NAME OF THE LIVING CHRIST.
THE BLOOD OF JESUS OVER OUR PRAYERS AND WE THANK YOU LORD, THANK YOU LORD THAT THIS HELL HOLE IS SHUT DOWN, LIVES WILL BE SAVED AND YOUR BLESSING IS POURED OUT UPON AURORA FOR MAKING A STAND FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS!
LET THIS BE A TESTIMONY TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF THE POWER OF OUR GOD, A TESTIMONY OF THE LOVE OF OUR GOD AND A TESTIMONY TO ABORTION CLINICS WORLDWIDE OF THE POWER OF OUR UNITED PRAYER AND THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD OF ALL!
LET THE WILL OF THE LORD GOD BE DONE. AMEN! SO BE IT.
HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!HALLELUJAH! PRAISE THE MOST HIGH GOD, WE HAVE THE VICTORY IN THE NAME OF JESUS!!
LIFE!!! LIFE!!! LIFE!!! LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY….
HALLELUJAH! PRAISES TO THE KING! THANK YOU LORD!
October 29th, 2007 at 9:59 pm